Womerry2 Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 http://nathanieltapley.com/blog/ Disregading the unfortunate oversight (Mr Cameron Sr having died last year), this seems to fit quite well with the tenor of this thread ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I don't think it's weird logic, if it was just one person out rioting over the weekend society wouldn't be in the same uproar it is about these events and we wouldn't have this petition. The fact is that it was bloc behaviour that's called for this petition to be created and so individuals are being treated by society as if they are a homogenous group and are to be treated as such. I'm the one saying that there are individuals within this group and the punishment needs to be fairly meted out according to each individual's crime- not just wholly saying take the council houses and benefits off anyone who was involved in the rioting. That's an extra punishment that will affect some more than others whether it is justified or not. So are you saying if an employer wanted to sack someone for taking part then they'd be wrong to disassociate them? That's all that certain councils are wanting to do, in reality they already have the power and don't need to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 So are you saying if an employer wanted to sack someone for taking part then they'd be wrong to disassociate them? That's all that certain councils are wanting to do, in reality they already have the power and don't need to ask. Well if they're sacked they'll end up on benefits at a later date so are the councils expected to check every applicants background to see whether they were involved in the riots for the next 80 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Well if they're sacked they'll end up on benefits at a later date so are the councils expected to check every applicants background to see whether they were involved in the riots for the next 80 years? Eh? Yes they probably would check their credentials, just like they already do! There are numerous reasons why they can refuse you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doingalright Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 I don't think it's weird logic, if it was just one person out rioting over the weekend society wouldn't be in the same uproar it is about these events and we wouldn't have this petition. The fact is that it was bloc behaviour that's called for this petition to be created and so individuals are being treated by society as if they are a homogenous group and are to be treated as such. I'm the one saying that there are individuals within this group and the punishment needs to be fairly meted out according to each individual's crime- not just wholly saying take the council houses and benefits off anyone who was involved in the rioting. That's an extra punishment that will affect some more than others whether it is justified or not. Someone that lives in a council house should have it taken from them if convicted of violent pubic order offences, or "rioting". Are you saying that they should keep their council house because there may be other rioters that do not live in council houses? some weird logic there! Those who dont live in council houses could perhaps be punished in other ways like having belongings removed or something like that, but giving coucil housing to those that have a total disregard for wider society has to stop, there are plenty of more deserving people that can't get a council house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Someone that lives in a council house should have it taken from them if convicted of violent pubic order offences, or "rioting". Are you saying that they should keep their council house because there may be other rioters that do not live in council houses? some weird logic there! Those who dont live in council houses could perhaps be punished in other ways like having belongings removed or something like that, but giving coucil housing to those that have a total disregard for wider society has to stop, there are plenty of more deserving people that can't get a council house. I think it's very easy to vent your anger and frustration at society through a 'slacktivist' campaign such as this one on Facebook- all you have to do is be angry and press a button. It's much harder to mobilise lots of people to get into their communities, get to know these dissaffected young people, break up the gangs, reduce racial tensions, work with police to tackle the criminal elements, change society's perspectives on 'chavs' and 'hoodies' enough to get them real employment opportunities and start to reform them from the bottom up. That's where I think our focus should be right now. That's what will solve the problem not an e-petition that has an unfair bias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulgarian Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Those who dont live in council houses could perhaps be punished in other ways like having belongings removed or something like that LOL People who live in tents could have their air bed removed and people who live on house boats could have a big hole drilled in the Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doingalright Posted August 11, 2011 Author Share Posted August 11, 2011 I think it's very easy to vent your anger and frustration at society through a 'slacktivist' campaign such as this one on Facebook- all you have to do is be angry and press a button. It's much harder to mobilise lots of people to get into their communities, get to know these dissaffected young people, break up the gangs, reduce racial tensions, work with police to tackle the criminal elements, change society's perspectives on 'chavs' and 'hoodies' enough to get them real employment opportunities and start to reform them from the bottom up. That's where I think our focus should be right now. That's what will solve the problem not an e-petition that has an unfair bias. What does that actually mean? you want me to physically go to a sink estate somewhere and flag down one of the teenagers tearing round the estate on an off-road bike and get to know him? thanks but no thanks The lefty handwringers that portray criminals as victims of society are really out of vogue now, the silent majority are finding their voice. Its time to get tough. Lets make Britain great again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 What does that actually mean? you want me to physically go to a sink estate somewhere and flag down one of the teenagers tearing round the estate on an off-road bike and get to know him? thanks but no thanks The lefty handwringers that portray criminals as victims of society are really out of vogue now, the silent majority are finding their voice. Its time to get tough. What you mean is that in times of economic hardship the right wingers try to forget the fact that their socio-economic model doesn't work by setting up as many 'us and them' distinctions as possible and turning communities against each other in the hope it will distract people from the economy. All ideologies are out of vogue if you hadn't noticed- all we expect politicians to be these days are managers, we no longer strive for ideals, whether they be left or right, and perhaps that's the problem. The silent majority probably don't even know what left and right wing means these days, they're too busy shopping and gossipping on Facebook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 I think it's very easy to vent your anger and frustration at society through a 'slacktivist' campaign such as this one on Facebook- all you have to do is be angry and press a button. It's much harder to mobilise lots of people to get into their communities, get to know these dissaffected young people, break up the gangs, reduce racial tensions, work with police to tackle the criminal elements, change society's perspectives on 'chavs' and 'hoodies' enough to get them real employment opportunities and start to reform them from the bottom up. That's where I think our focus should be right now. That's what will solve the problem not an e-petition that has an unfair bias. Surely this is what schools are for? So should there be tougher penalties for missing and messing around at school? For both the child and parents? Maybe if they don't do well enough they have to stay until they do, or go on special schemes? The thing is, a good number of these hooligans are from all classes, upbringings and other socio-economic groups... So, identifying a single cause is not going to happen, other than that they no longer respect law and order, therefore justice needs to get realistic and punishment should be just that and not another free holiday for poor baby thug... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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