Cavegirl Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 You've managed make a consideration of the inner politics of a small band of egalitarian hunter gatherers sound like an Orwellian state-controlled facist society- complete with 'thought police' and the Spanish Inquisition hahaha. Are you sure you read it impartially? With this kind of hysterics applied to modest hunter gatherers I'd love to read what you have to say about Stalinism We've certainly altered physically to new environments and we've adapted and diversified culturally- but I wouldn't say we've truly evolved since Homo sapien sapien first came on the scene, not enough to define ourselves by a new species title anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 So who do you think pays for that difference between what they could charge. Err nobody.. because profit isn't a 'thing' requiring to be paid for. The council puts no added money from our council tax, or anywhere else for that matter (that would be a subsidy) over and above rents paid towards the cost of housing. If rents didn't meet the cost of the housing and the council was adding more cash to foot the bill I'd agree with you BUT and it's a HUGE GREAT MASSIVE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM BUT - The cost of the housing is more than met by the rents paid! Using your argument, we're all getting just about everything subsidised because it's cheaper than can be had privately.. you know how much it would cost to get lighting gantries in the street, and power them? What about employing your own private contractor coming and dealing with your waste every week? To name just a couple of things.. And you pay NOTHING towards those services... oh sorry you're about to argue you pay council tax; so you do!.. right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 You've managed make a consideration of the inner politics of a small band of egalitarian hunter gatherers sound like an Orwellian state-controlled facist society- complete with 'thought police' and the Spanish Inquisition hahaha. Are you sure you read it impartially? With this kind of hysterics applied to modest hunter gatherers I'd love to read what you have to say about Stalinism We've certainly altered physically to new environments and we've adapted and diversified culturally- but I wouldn't say we've truly evolved since Homo sapien sapien first came on the scene, not enough to define ourselves by a new species title anyway. I did actually think of Brazil at times... Impartially, yes, there are various David Attenborough and the such like documentaries which are a lot more substantive and informative. Also having lived (stayed) in numerous communes many years ago I do feel qualified to see the hypocrisy of communist authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Err nobody.. because profit isn't a 'thing' requiring to be paid for. The council puts no added money from our council tax, or anywhere else for that matter (that would be a subsidy) over and above rents paid towards the cost of housing. If rents didn't meet the cost of the housing and the council was adding more cash to foot the bill I'd agree with you BUT and it's a HUGE GREAT MASSIVE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM BUT - The cost of the housing is more than met by the rents paid! Using your argument, we're all getting just about everything subsidised because it's cheaper than can be had privately.. you know how much it would cost to get lighting gantries in the street, and power them? What about employing your own private contractor coming and dealing with your waste every week? To name just a couple of things.. And you pay NOTHING towards those services... oh sorry you're about to argue you pay council tax; so you do!.. right? You do know most of our "public services" are provided privately surely? Do you think the veolia wagon that comes and takes away your waste is staffed and paid for by t'corporation? It's a private company making a profit, just like landlords have to make a profit. Anyway, much as it would sadden me lets sell the remaining council housing stock on the market and see if rents go up or down. If they go up, then it was subsidised, if they go down then the evil private sector are charging mental rents which for some reason everyone pays and the private rental sector will snap them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 You do know most of our "public services" are provided privately surely? Do you think the veolia wagon that comes and takes away your waste is staffed and paid for by t'corporation? It's a private company making a profit, just like landlords have to make a profit. Yes, it is paid for by the council, they contract (i.e pay) Veola to do the job. But you try and get Veola to come and do it for YOU, on a personal contract. See if there's a difference in cost? If there is I'm paying via my council tax to subside your bins being emptied (oh the outrage).. that's the strength of your argument. The difference in price is available through economies of scale. Similarly, the cost of maintaining social housing (per house) is probably a lot less than the equivalent cost for a private landlord.. They employ private companies via contract (in the same way as you Veola suggestion) that makes up for some of the difference in pricing for a start. Anyway, much as it would sadden me lets sell the remaining council housing stock on the market and see if rents go up or down. If they go up, then it was subsidised, if they go down then the evil private sector are charging mental rents which for some reason everyone pays and the private rental sector will snap them up. You really are spouting drivel here.. OK to put another spin on it... Tesco & Sainsbury's both buy a can of baked beans from the manufacturer for 10p Sainsbury's sell their can of beans for 25p Tesco thinks oh hang on.. if we sell our can of beans for 20p we will probably sell a lot more, we're still in profit and will make much more money than Sainsburys. Is that subsidy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Yes, it is paid for by the council, they contract (i.e pay) Veola to do the job. But you try and get Veola to come and do it for YOU, on a personal contract. See if there's a difference in cost? If there is I'm paying via my council tax to subside your bins being emptied (oh the outrage).. that's the strength of your argument. The difference in price is available through economies of scale. Similarly, the cost of maintaining social housing (per house) is probably a lot less than the equivalent cost for a private landlord.. They employ private companies via contract (in the same way as you Veola suggestion) that makes up for some of the difference in pricing for a start. Lets assume the economies of scale make up the difference between the market rate and the council house dwellers rate, which i'm not convinced of but lets run with that assumption. Who pays for the economy of scale? The taxpayer. So when all taxpayers pay to allow this economy of scale but only the chosen few benefit from it then anyone with any kind of economic literacy understands only the chosen few are financially benefiting from the economy of scale, hence they are subsidised. You really are spouting drivel here.. OK to put another spin on it... Tesco & Sainsbury's both buy a can of baked beans from the manufacturer for 10p Sainsbury's sell their can of beans for 25p Tesco thinks oh hang on.. if we sell our can of beans for 20p we will probably sell a lot more, we're still in profit and will make much more money than Sainsburys. Is that subsidy? Comparing subsidised social housing to competition on selling tins of beans by supermarkets really shows your understanding of the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Who pays for the economy of scale? The taxpayer. Err no.. as I've pointed out more than once.. the rent paid more than covers this! Something you deliberately keep ignoring. Comparing subsidised social housing to competition on selling tins of beans by supermarkets really shows your understanding of the issue. And this comment highlights your arrogance and ignorance. So I'll leave you to argue the toss with yourself about your neo-liberal wet dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansheff Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 So what should happen to the girl whose parents are millionaires and live in a £1,000,000 house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampster Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 So what should happen to the girl whose parents are millionaires and live in a £1,000,000 house? A bit of under table hand shaking, few nudges and a wink over a few brandy's down the 'club' .. and everything's rosey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted August 11, 2011 Share Posted August 11, 2011 Wouldn't evicting people from their homes and cutting their benefits actually increase their tendency to riot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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