Cyclone Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I'm not interested in what other people think, that's why addressed to question soley to you, so what is your reply? I gave you my reply, it matters as much to me as I1L2T3 and Rupert. It's hardly my problem if you don't know how much it matters to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Re: my pension I'm hedging my bets with it. What I don't pay in, as I said above, is invested in other things I find more interesting and I think offer better prospects for a decent retirement income. As for whether you pay more tax that is not the issue. It's whether you pay your fair share. You've made it clear you don't. Philip Green probably paid more tax than most people the other year but still managed to dodge £285m of it. On the contrary, I've made it clear that I do. I pay exactly the amount the government requires me to pay. If you don't think that directors of companies (and your pension fund) should be able to take dividends then I suggest you lobby your MP. Good luck with that though. You seem to be suggesting that all income should be PAYE, that simply isn't the case and has never been the case or the intention though. I think I mentioned before that this appears to be just jealousy because you perceive that you pay more than some other people (although in reality you probably pay less than those you're complaining about). Have you opted out of public services? Stopped using subsidised services like the railways? Used private schools? Private healthcare? If not why should everybody else subsidise you? Do you think that is reasonable? Do we all use them equally? Do we all pay a flat rate for them? So long as we all pay the legally required amount of tax we all get to use the services you've listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 You're using the tax system to your advantage just like the people you are decrying...how are you different..? (I'm not sure I used the word immoral) I'm using the tax system as it was intended to be used. Pension saving carries tax advantages because it is a good thing to do. The tax advantages are available because the government WANTS us to do it. And remember, I am not saving for my pension purposefully to avoid tax. I'm doing it because I'm........er...........saving for my pension. So why does that make it immoral for me to use the NHS? You still haven't explained....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Why would I stop using the NHS because I have a pension plan? Blinkered or what. Because you are avoiding tax by paying into that plan. Is it okay for you, but not for anyone else? Or is it just that you'll decide which ways of reducing your tax burden are acceptable and which are not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 And why does that make it immoral for me to use the NHS. You haven't explained that bit. Go on.......... Can you really not see how paying into a pension plan, or taking dividends are both entirely legal ways of reducing your tax burden? And if you can see that, how is that you can justify the first and decry the latter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I'm using the tax system as it was intended to be used. Pension saving carries tax advantages because it is a good thing to do. The tax advantages are available because the government WANTS us to do it. And remember, I am not saving for my pension purposefully to avoid tax. I'm doing it because I'm........er...........saving for my pension. So why does that make it immoral for me to use the NHS? You still haven't explained....... I didn't say it did make it immoral.....you're the one who said that....you're using the system in the same way as everyone else is... (as long as they aren't breaking the law,which is a different matter) you're no different and don't really have the moral high ground to say that other folk aren't paying their fair share.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I'm using the tax system as it was intended to be used. Pension saving carries tax advantages because it is a good thing to do. The tax advantages are available because the government WANTS us to do it. Maybe you can explain how dividends were intended to be used then... If not in the way that small business owners use them? And remember, I am not saving for my pension purposefully to avoid tax. I'm doing it because I'm........er...........saving for my pension. Oh, so it's all about intentions now, so that makes it okay for you to avoid some tax. So why does that make it immoral for me to use the NHS? You still haven't explained....... It's as immoral (which is to say not at all) as taking dividends, or living in Jersey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 On the contrary, I've made it clear that I do. I pay exactly the amount the government requires me to pay. If you don't think that directors of companies (and your pension fund) should be able to take dividends then I suggest you lobby your MP. Good luck with that though. You seem to be suggesting that all income should be PAYE, that simply isn't the case and has never been the case or the intention though. I think I mentioned before that this appears to be just jealousy because you perceive that you pay more than some other people (although in reality you probably pay less than those you're complaining about). Do we all use them equally? Do we all pay a flat rate for them? So long as we all pay the legally required amount of tax we all get to use the services you've listed. No jealousy. As I explained above I have a good income. I pay the correct amount of tax, my fair contribution to services that we all use. I've stated this repeatedly. The argument that you do what you can legally get away with is increasingly bankrupt in our society now. It is the same argument that the bankers use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Can you really not see how paying into a pension plan, or taking dividends are both entirely legal ways of reducing your tax burden? And if you can see that, how is that you can justify the first and decry the latter? One is a virtuous means of tax avoidance encouraged by the government and not necessarily done in an attempt to avoid tax. The other is deliberately done to avoid tax. The first one is pensions savings by the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truman Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 No jealousy. As I explained above I have a good income. I pay the correct amount of tax, my fair contribution to services that we all use. I've stated this repeatedly. The argument that you do what you can legally get away with is increasingly bankrupt in our society now. It is the same argument that the bankers use. It's exactly what you're doing though..you'rre taking advantage of a tax vehicle to increase your pension...why is it OK for you to do it and not other people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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