just_words Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 It's apparent from you writing here. I've no idea of your ethnic background and can't imagine how it's relevant. Indeed there is BUT the majority of hip hop does not glorify criminality. You'd be aware of this if you followed the music closely, which of course is entirely optional! Not everyone likes hip hop! The problem is that, as I stated a lot of what is penetrating the charts and radio playlists is quite negative and gives a poor impression of the music to someone who does not expose themselves to it more deeply. It's something I feel quite strongly about as I'm sick of hearing the "hip hop ain't what it used to be" cliché. A long time ago but I remember it well and the music of that time. Quality hip hop received plenty of attention in those days and emerging gangsta rap was fairly underground. In this century we see coke-snorting gangbangers like 50 Cent and The Game in the charts and anyone whose rap is political, social commentary or left-field is now underground and completely unknown by daytime radio and MTV audiences. Of course, there has been a general increase in the sexualisation of pop music over the last fifteen years, not just in the booty-shaking hip hop videos. Still you show no qualification! It's still just your single personal opinion, even out weighed on this thread alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 The problem is that, as I stated a lot of what is penetrating the charts and radio playlists is quite negative and gives a poor impression of the music to someone who does not expose themselves to it more deeply. ... A long time ago but I remember it well and the music of that time. Quality hip hop received plenty of attention in those days and emerging gangsta rap was fairly underground. In this century we see coke-snorting gangbangers like 50 Cent and The Game in the charts and anyone whose rap is political, social commentary or left-field is now underground and completely unknown by daytime radio and MTV audiences. Of course, there has been a general increase in the sexualisation of pop music over the last fifteen years, not just in the booty-shaking hip hop videos. So would you agree to the none audiophile like yourself, that the majority of people see and hear this side (which you personally dislike) on a regular basis and see and know this as representative of a genre? After all, those are you words! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shims Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Still you show no qualification! It's still just your single personal opinion, even out weighed on this thread alone! My only mistake was to bother replying to you. I had you summed up quite accurately, several posts back. Now, forgive me if I choose to inform people, debate with people and learn from people, all of which are far more rewarding more than sparring with a fool. So would you agree to the none audiophile like yourself, that the majority of people see and hear this side (which you personally dislike) on a regular basis and see and know this as representative of a genre? After all, those are you words! My bold. Exactly. Nail on head. They don't 'know'. They believe they know. Based on limited exposure. PS: 1. Look up the meaning of audiophile. 2. I haven't 'given up', I've given up playing your ridiculous game. 3. I've yet to see anyone display any working knowledge of hip hop music on this thread that contradicts my own so I've been out-weighed by precisely nothing. 4. You failed to answer two basic questions, one of which was directly related to a claim you made! The other, easy peasy for anyone who knows the music and isn't bluffing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 My only mistake was to bother replying to you. I had you summed up quite accurately several posts back. Now forgive me if I choose to inform people, debate with people and learn from people, all of which far are rewarding more than sparring with a fool. [edit] Look up the meaning of audiophile. LOL, it's just a phrase from when I used to work at a shop of the same name... Common usage means quite a few things, connoisseurs of music being one of them... I'm glad you've given up since you've stated what everyone else has, twice now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shims Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Could you do me a favour and tell me what you believe "black culture" is? Don't hold your breath .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Jamaican patois is not the only dialect or language spoken in England other than English. Most of modern black youth-speak is not patois at all and many of the terms used by young black youth are originated from here, not in the Caribbean. How can anyone have a sense of a "foreign country" because of youths speaking slang words, when compared with foreign nationals/migrant workers and immigrants speaking in their native tongue on British soil! The man's statement is absurd. It's quite possible, as a native English speaker, to understand someone using street slang (since the slang is English based). How on earth could this compare with exposure to say, Urdu, Cantonese, Polish, Shona or the rest, which are entirely foreign and require prior learning?! Besides, some might easier follow a speaker of authentic Jamaican patois than a regional English speaker with a thick accent from Inverness or Tyneside. What Starkey is doing here is to singularly attribute a 'foreigness' to street language whilst ignoring that we live in a multicutural country where you can hear a plethora of foreign languages spoken daily without having any grasp of them at all. Somewhat of an oversight on his part. Would I brand Starkey a racist because of what he said? No. what he manages to do is make generalisations where, if he had a greater depth of knowledge, he would be unable to. That's a compelling point-the irony being that Starkey laments the pre-eminence of 'black culture' amongst white chavs, yet wouldn't have made the statement at all if he had any understanding of black culture, he obviously has little or no experience of it. I wonder what his view would be of someone deriding gay culture because they believed it was all about promiscuous sailors and cross dressers visiting the YMCA-Starkey's pronouncements are equally as false and bigoted. Ps: I agree with you, the 'Jamaican patois' he refers to bears little resemblance to how I've ever heard a Jamaican speak, in fact my mother laughed herself hoarse when she first heard one of these youths speaking like that, she (honestly) thought they were a Welsh Cockney! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So would you agree to the none audiophile like yourself, that the majority of people see and hear this side (which you personally dislike) on a regular basis and see and know this as representative of a genre? After all, those are you words! I don't like rap, hate some of the sentiments expressed in it and turn it off if it ever comes on the radio, but I also didn't have a lot of time for hard punk either, some of the sentiments expressed in that were equally as offensive, but I wouldn't start claiming it was indicative of white culture any more than rap music is of black-that's the mistake Starkey is making. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 He is actually quite correct. Whether or not the listener takes this as good or bad is up to them. As I have said many times on this forum it's not "racist" to point out things that are happening due to the changes to the racial make up of the UK. That's an unusually poor analysis from you azazel. How can Starkey be correct? He's highlighting problems within our inner cities and blaming the white contributions to them on 'black culture'. The white chavs may well be emulating the black ones, but claiming they're becoming black or blaming black culture would be like saying black chavs are becoming white because they all speak with London accents and sit on their arses all day expecting the state to provide for them...ridiculous! The pernicious culture is the Culture of Chav! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I don't like rap, hate some of the sentiments expressed in it and turn it off if it ever comes on the radio, but I also didn't have a lot of time for hard punk either, some of the sentiments expressed in that were equally as offensive, but I wouldn't start claiming it was indicative of white culture any more than rap music is of black-that's the mistake Starkey is making. No, it's not indicative of the whole of any culture. generally one rule fits all is always a bias and an over generalisation. As my earlier post said, it is claimed as a black cultural thing though and non blacks are generally laughed at for trying. (probably quite rightly, why, I don't know, but it's pretty true!) But that referenced documentary programme had also claimed it as a black thing and explained very well in my opinion as to why they can hail it! But yes, most Punk music is Anarchistic, and in my personal opinion pretty shallow, stupid and selfish, communist even. The thing that that make both likeable is that as a musical form it is good (for numerous reasons), even if you don't agree with the lyrics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just_words Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 The pernicious culture is the Culture of Chav! Also, you can't really state that all the problems are due to them... Your basically doing what your slating Starkey for! But yes chavs are part of the problem! Also, most chavs I see and have met, also listen to a lot of rap, go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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