Jason Bourne Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Indeed to me that is the embodiment of Conservativism. You don't have to be happy with your lot, it's ok to aspire to do better for yourself and your family Mine too. That's why I was so upset when David Davis lost out in the Tory leadership challenge against the loathsome public-school-educated-born-to-milionaire-parents-never-had-a-proper-job-professional-spindoctor Cameron. But the fact that the Tories chose Cameron speaks volumes. It seems to me that if you're a working class Tory, then the working class hate you and the rich Tories really hate you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Rich Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Mine too. That's why I was so upset when David Davis lost out in the Tory leadership challenge against the loathsome public-school-educated-born-to-milionaire-parents-never-had-a-proper-job-professional-spindoctor Cameron. But the fact that the Tories chose Cameron speaks volumes. It seems to me that if you're a working class Tory, then the working class hate you and the rich Tories really hate you. Spot on. I would see Blair as the natural successer to Thatcher not Cameron. Cameron is the naturel successer to Flashman, from Tom Brown's Schoolday. A thick and stupid bully who picks on the weak and kissses the feet of the powerful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Bourne Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 A thick and stupid bully who picks on the weak and kissses the feet of the powerful Then he's no different to Blair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Rich Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Then he's no different to Blair. Ah yes...I'm forgetting that Blair was a public school...er...'person.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossdog Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 According to Cameron there's been a morale collapse in society. i think he's got a point - you see evidence every day, not just manifesting itself in riots, but also through much small acts of inviduals from all sectors of society. Here's my own list of things that have contributed this to a larger or small extent (in no particular order and not exhaustive): - the rise of consumerism, with the need to aquire that latest must have product - the lack of social housing, caused by Right to Buy policies, leading the further ghetoisation of lower income families - the availability of easy credit, which Thatcher brought about ,leading to debt and the misery it causes - the rising presence of alcohol in society - the obsession with private propery, shown most typically with the obsession with house prices - the deindustrialisation of the 1980s, which virtually ended apprenticeships in heavy industry and reduced opportunities for young men who didn't have an academic outlook (you were too knackered to riot when you'd done an 8 hour shift at the pit!) - the obsession with celebrity - "oh, i must have what they have/look like them" - the rise of the compensation culture, which was given life by Thatcher's reforms of the legal profession. This has given rise to the I want what's mine attitude - the fall is standards in public life, typified by MPs and journalists The problem that I have with Cameron is that he seems to be trying to move the agenda onto gangs and criminality,but this goes much deeper. He needs to take a long hard look at what governments have done since the 1980s, and in particular what his beloved Thatcher unleashed, and try and unpick some of that damage. For me, the sad thing is that Labour had 13 years to make a difference, but just continued with the individualistic, consumeristic agenda that the Tories had begun. We reap what we sow. But you have forgotten to mention the main cause........................."ABSENT FATHERS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titanic99 Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Indeed to me that is the embodiment of Conservativism. You don't have to be happy with your lot, it's ok to aspire to do better for yourself and your family, and with hard work you can achieve things regardless of your background. That's why I can never understand people that have a go at working class Tories, as though wanting to better ones self is a bad thing Pity those poor sods on £1 an hour before the minimum wage came in (resisted by those you aspire to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Bourne Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Pity those poor sods on £1 an hour before the minimum wage came in (resisted by those you aspire to). Wasn't it a Labour government that abolished university grants and imposed tuition fees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crookesey Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Wasn't it a Labour government that abolished university grants and imposed tuition fees? Titanic 99 always ignores any of Labour's plethora of clangers, but at least he's consistent. As for Cameron, his challenge starts now, and I think that the way the courts are handing rioters and looters leaves much to desire. I personally would have liked to have seen specially trained riot squads deployed, with orders to use whatever force they felt necessary. What is happening now is knee jerk, after the event spin. My preferred action would no doubt have seen some fatalities, but at least they would have been in respect of the looters and rioters. Theresa May bringing in Rambo type characters from the states isn't the answer. We need a system that frightens the life out of prospective law breakers, the current system treats scroats like these better than it treats the innocent law abiding folk, if a few of the bad guys have to die to achieve peace on our streets, so be it, I won't loose any sleep over them. This Rambo guy is going to be confronted by PC senior police officers with Social Sciences degrees, he will no doubt be well impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Wasn't it a Labour government that abolished university grants and imposed tuition fees? The route were sewn long before 1997 and while where on the subject, which political party expanded the higher education system with the conversion of polytechnics into universities only then to turn around and say there are far too many people going to universities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Rich Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Wasn't it a Labour government that abolished university grants and imposed tuition fees? Yes it was but these would have been brought in whichever government was in office. Same with the banking bail out. Cameron would have done the same because there was no other choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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