Solar Panel Megathread

[El Cid]

 

What about winter?

 

More wind energy is generated in winter, solar will be reduced by between 60-70%, but solar only accounts for 1.2% of the renewable energy.

[unbeliever]

 

How can solar 'cope' with base load? Base load isn't optional and coal power stations don't have an off switch (it takes a long time to ramp up or down).

The only way it actually works is having enough gas power generation to cover for the solar, which makes it pointless, as a rapid spin up gas generator is more polluting than coal.

 

Quite right.

I've already listed the "green" energy options for base load.

They're all highly expensive.

 

---------- Post added 03-09-2015 at 09:08 ----------

 

Alternative energy will become genuinely useful when batteries are better.

There have been improvements over recent years. For example Tesla have improved the design of LiION batteries so that they can do 5 times more charge cycles than the one in my mac. That's a big step forward, but there's still a long way to go.

But there are no guarantees. The reality is that we have to choose from the options which work now. Nuclear for base load and fracked gas for peaking and on demand will drastically reduce our CO2 production and are affordable as long as we don't try and rush it. Gas produces a lot less CO2 than coal and nuclear produces none. Gas also produces zero actual pollution.

 

We can look seriously at things like wind and perhaps even solar when the storage technology is available. Until then they're just a very expensive political con by politicians who want the "green" votes.

 

I don't understand why so many alternative energy fans are wilfully ignorant of the harm to the poor and elderly of the expensive and unreliable technology they support. It's no good willing these alternatives to be something they're not. There are lives at stake here. This is not a game to be played for political gain.

 

---------- Post added 03-09-2015 at 09:10 ----------

 

More wind energy is generated in winter, solar will be reduced by between 60-70%, but solar only accounts for 1.2% of the renewable energy.

 

What about on a still winter evening?

[El Cid]

 

What about on a still winter evening?

 

We have many different ways of generating electricity, we can even import it from other countries.

 

National Grid can ask large buildings like hospitals or government offices to switch on their small diesel generators, under a scheme called the Short Term Operating Reserve (STOR).

Approximately 496 megawatts of diesel generation were available through STOR.

[unbeliever]

We have many different ways of generating electricity, we can even import it from other countries.

 

National Grid can ask large buildings like hospitals or government offices to switch on their small diesel generators, under a scheme called the Short Term Operating Reserve (STOR).

Approximately 496 megawatts of diesel generation were available through STOR.

 

You want oil backup? You're kidding. I guess it'll make the Saudi royal family happy. How is that green?

 

You're basically talking about buying all our generating capacity several times over and hoping that most of the time at least one of the systems will work. It's daft.

[psynuk]

Solar panels produce power at exactly the wrong times..

 

well, not exactly.

Right now i'm using;

2pc's,

a router,

1 tv,

1 stereo,

dishwasher,

alarm clock,

ch boiler,

charging a phone,a battery and a ds,

my house alarm, cooker and powerline are also drawing elec.

 

I've used the washing machine, kettle, toaster so far as well.

I might use the hoover later or the garden strimmer depending if it stays sunny(ish)...

 

if I had solar panels some of that electricity would have been taken from them rather than the grid.

 

And 'this evening when it's dark they wouldn't', I'm not sure that's a good argument against the daytime use.

[unbeliever]

well, not exactly.

Right now i'm using;

2pc's,

a router,

1 tv,

1 stereo,

dishwasher,

alarm clock,

ch boiler,

charging a phone,a battery and a ds,

my house alarm, cooker and powerline are also drawing elec.

 

I've used the washing machine, kettle, toaster so far as well.

I might use the hoover later or the garden strimmer depending if it stays sunny(ish)...

 

if I had solar panels some of that electricity would have been taken from them rather than the grid.

 

And 'this evening when it's dark they wouldn't', I'm not sure that's a good argument against the daytime use.

 

The problem is that the power stations which provide power when it's dark take time to ramp up and down, so they have to operate even when it's sunny. There's just no real gain.

[psynuk]

but is there any gain?

I'm not knowledgeable on the start up times of power plants

but it seems that what your saying is; the 'wasted' power of starting plants up is equal or greater than all the renewable energy generated during the time taken to do it?

 

That can't be right

[unbeliever]

but is there any gain?

I'm not knowledgeable on the start up times of power plants

but it seems that what your saying is; the 'wasted' power of starting plants up is equal or greater than all the renewable energy generated during the time taken to do it?

 

That can't be right

 

It doesn't wipe out the effect completely.

 

We have increased the number of "on demand" gas power stations to compensate for the existence of large amounts of renewable energy. These are specially designed to be able to adjust their output quickly. They're much more expensive to build and run and they waste a lot of fuel, but they do work.

 

There's not really any renewable option for "peaking" or "on demand" power stations, so until battery technology is available and affordable, we're going to have a lot of these.

 

My big gripe is that these "on demand" power stations are only necessary in such numbers because of the intermittency of renewables. So the cost of them and the extra CO2 that they produce from their lower efficiency ought to be counted into the cost and out of the CO2 reduction of the renewables they fill in for.

[El Cid]

You want oil backup? You're kidding. I guess it'll make the Saudi royal family happy. How is that green?

 

You're basically talking about buying all our generating capacity several times over and hoping that most of the time at least one of the systems will work. It's daft.

 

It is not what I want, it is what is available now. Theses companies have not got their own generating capacity because of solar power, they have had it for years, and it may become more common place.

[unbeliever]

It is not what I want, it is what is available now. Theses companies have not got their own generating capacity because of solar power, they have had it for years, and it may become more common place.

 

If it becomes more common, then it will be because they can't rely on the grid.

 

You know what else is available now. Gas. Far cleaner than diesel in every sense. Nuclear too if you persist in this CO2 religion.

 

I think STOR is hilarious. The intermittency problem of renewable energy, on top of all it's other flaws, is going to lead to vast amounts of pollution across the country from inefficient and dirty diesel generators. You couldn't make it up.

Edited September 3, 2015 by unbeliever