Fox hunting bill killed off!

[Obelix]

Except that you'd be wrong of course.

[Carmen.]

Mecky, When are you going to light that pipe?

As for this thread, I HATE CRUELTY OF ANY KIND.

[bowie1867]

Who tortured the foxes i thought the hounds just ripped em to pieces?

[Chris_Sleeps]

When the hunting bill was being thought up, I asked a Labour campaigner if they were going to ban other blood sports like angling perhaps.

I wouldn't consider fishing as a blood sport when compared to fox hunting. There is a whole context that seperates the two - firstly the fact that not all fishing ends in death. Secondly, it's very easy to argue that fish are a 'lower animal' than a mammal; they don't suffer the same way that a fox does. Thirdly, if one is eating the fish, then there is a teleological reason for catching it. It serves a purpose, it will be a meal.

 

Further to the quote, it's very easy to turn your point around. If we are going to allow blood sports, then are we going to allow dog fighting and badger baiting? It's a simple argument to make.

Who tortured the foxes i thought the hounds just ripped em to pieces?

After chasing them to the point of exhaustion and sending dogs down into their den, forcing them to fight for their lives.

 

Nothing torturous about that. It's a grand day out.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Chris_Sleeps

[Mister M]

When the hunting bill was being thought up, I asked a Labour campaigner if they were going to ban other blood sports like angling perhaps.

 

His response was that they couldn't possibly do that as lots of ordinary people fished for pleasure....

 

Remind me who the bullying party was again on this Bill...? It was Labour purely in for a bit of nasty class warfare because they were ideologically opposed to it.

 

If it's simply a matter of Labour engaging un class warfare, why didn't they legalise blood sports that were more associated with working class pass times (dog fighting) and the like?

And if you're complaining about class warfare, why don't you acknowledge the class warfare that Conservative governments engaged in from 79 - 97 on behalf of the rich?

 

---------- Post added 29-12-2014 at 17:48 ----------

 

I wouldn't consider fishing as a blood sport when compared to fox hunting. There is a whole context that seperates the two - firstly the fact that not all fishing ends in death. Secondly, it's very easy to argue that fish are a 'lower animal' than a mammal; they don't suffer the same way that a fox does. Thirdly, if one is eating the fish, then there is a teleological reason for catching it. It serves a purpose, it will be a meal.

 

Further to the quote, it's very easy to turn your point around. If we are going to allow blood sports, then are we going to allow dog fighting and badger baiting? It's a simple argument to make.

 

After chasing them to the point of exhaustion and sending dog's down into their den, forcing them to fight for their lives.

 

Nothing torturous about that. It's a grand day out.

 

I think on that point Oscar Wilde said of foxhunting that it "is the unspeakable chasing the uneatable"

[Obelix]

I wouldn't consider fishing as a blood sport when compared to fox hunting. There is a whole context that seperates the two - firstly the fact that not all fishing ends in death.

 

So tormenting a fish and putting it back to do it again is more acceptable?

 

The context that seperates the two is simple. Angling is done primarily by Labour voters and hunting was primarily Conservative voters. That's the reason why.

 

Secondly, it's very easy to argue that fish are a 'lower animal' than a mammal; they don't suffer the same way that a fox does.

 

I don't see that makes it any more acceptable.

 

Thirdly, if one is eating the fish, then there is a teleological reason for catching it. It serves a purpose, it will be a meal.

 

Similarly if one is exterminating a pest then that also serves a perfectly valid purpose. I never had any time for hunts that let the dogs shred the fox - shoot it as soon as you can please. As for those who would import foxes just to hunt - that's not even remotely acceptable. As bad as stocking a lake to catch for sport (unless as you say you are going to eat the catch)

 

Further to the quote, it's very easy to turn your point around. If we are going to allow blood sports, then are we going to allow dog fighting and badger baiting? It's a simple argument to make.

 

After chasing them to the point of exhaustion and sending dogs down into their den, forcing them to fight for their lives.

 

I've covered that point above already thanks.

 

I notice Mecky is silent on the issue after his usual seagull antics too

[Chris_Sleeps]

So tormenting a fish and putting it back to do it again is more acceptable?

Inevitably, if it doesn't end in death then it must be more acceptable.

 

I'll skip over the party politics. Not interested. I just don't think hunting and killing animals for sport is acceptable.

I don't see that makes it any more acceptable.

I don't fish, and I have used the arguments you use to wind up my family - keen fisherman.

 

However, it is a point that is raised when discussing animals - some are given more moral rights than others. Dogs are at the top of British society, to the point where nobody can stomach the idea of hurting or eating one.

Similarly if one is exterminating a pest then that also serves a perfectly valid purpose. I never had any time for hunts that let the dogs shred the fox - shoot it as soon as you can please.

The teleological argument for fox hunting - pest control. It falls apart when some fox populations were cultivated and protected in order to hunt them later.

 

Secondly, foxes are pests, but it's easier to get a group of people together to kill an animal than it is to get a group of people together to protect farm animals. People are inherently motivated by the bloodsport.

[go4it]

Here we go again http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11307715/Tories-to-legalise-fox-hunting-if-they-win-2015-general-election.html The bullying tories are desperate to bring back fox hunting it seems

 

If foxes had seven horns and wonky eyes, then people wouldn't object.

 

Fox hunting has gone on for hundreds of years. Foxes are pests and their numbers need to be controlled. Many methods were tried but this one works the best. All was well until the loony left came into power.

[RonJeremy]

If it wasn't for hunting there would be very few foxes left in Britain. They would simply be shot by farmers. At the moment, where a hunt exists, in a symbiotic relationship, the farmer is asked not to kill all the foxes. Only the sick and ill ones will be caught (the ones that are a threat to livestock and domestic animals) by the hunt leaving a healthy pleasant balance in the countryside.

The idea that that hunts are populated by toffs is utterly laughable to anyone who knows huntsmen and women.

I do not hunt, it isn't for me, but I do fish and I do shoot. The fishing troubles me sometimes, especially the idea of dangling a live animal on a line, putting it in pain to make it wriggle more, to drag out another animal only to put it back for further pain by the next angler. In my opinion, true animal lovers should concentrate on fishermen (and it is usually men) before any other country sport.

Don't get me started on Halal.

[Obelix]

 

The teleological argument for fox hunting - pest control. It falls apart when some fox populations were cultivated and protected in order to hunt them later.

 

I'll thank you not to snip the part out of my argument so you can then make a cheap point. As I'm sure you know, I said "As for those who would import foxes just to hunt - that's not even remotely acceptable. As bad as stocking a lake to catch for sport (unless as you say you are going to eat the catch)"

 

Since you cannot argue in good faith, I won't stoop to your level and argue in bad faith. Goodnight.