donkey Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Possibly. You are failing to grasp the effect that mobs of people have in the country. You are also over estimating the level education alot of these looters have. Do you think they know who is even in charge ? I have never once said that the rioting was poltically motivated. That is an assumption you have made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'm certainly no looter excuser, but I do think that there is an equivalence between what they did and the disgraceful behaviour of some of our MPs. Both sets of people took things that didn't belong to them. Both sets of people behaved in morally unacceptable ways. Both sets of people used their power to steal from the law abiding. Both sets of people comitted shocking crimes. They are both as bad as each other. And, they are both worse than common criminals as their crimes were quite extreme. Therefore, both the looters and the fiddling MPs should have the full weight of the judicial system hurled at them. Sibon, totally agree, as i recall the mps were whining they got overly hard sentances too. Screw em all,criminal mps, rioters, get em all connected by a good old fashioned chain and lets get some work out of these degenerates with a whip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 I'm not saying it politically motivated. I'm pretty sure it isn't. Ive no real idea what on earth your point of view except you don't like mps much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Yes i do speak on behalf of the victims of crime because if we left it you and your kind the only voice would be a whiny human rights act petition for all criminals to get a free holiday to the seychelles because they didn't really mean to do all that lootin and shootin. You don't know anything about me. As a matter of fact I confronted a would be burglar at a neighbours house only last night, and he ran away. I do very hard physical work for a living, don't read the guardian, and have had plenty of first hand experience of both crime and social deprivation. Sorry if that doesn't fit in with your 'Little Englander's' guide to stereotyping which you got as a free supplement from the Daily Bigot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANGELFIRE1 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Do you think, prior these stiff sentences, that these people would stop at rioting ? Stand next to these rioters at a bus stop in hackney and make a phone call on an expensive phone. See how long it remains in your hand. Take out a wallet with a wad of notes in it. You willbe robbed if you are stood next to the vast majority of those rioters. The mps fiddled the system and the country. The looters stole from individuals and businesses. They are not the same. Sad fact a crook is a crook, even if they are "ordinary" folk, or an MP. A crook is a crook per se. Thats fact. They are exactly the same - a criminal. Regards Angel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe9T Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 There is no but. Sub judice laws can only be applied to specific, individual cases. The answer to your question is "No." Well, I would want too see someone caught nicking a tv or chewing gum or any item this very day 19 August 2011, being treated EXACTLY the same as those charged with nicking TV's and chewing gum and the like during the riots AND then we will know whether sub judice HASN'T or HAS taken place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe9T Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 There is the answer to the question in the thread title. They the Government have, broadly speaking ie relating to ALL who took part in the riots and that to me is sub judice, when you urge the courts to be firmer than usual. That is plain and simple telling the judge to be firmer, when the judge and courts should be left to impose the right sentence, as someone who had been caught and charged for the same offense previous to the riots. A murder before the riots is the same as a murder during the riots, as much as a person stealing from a shop prior to the riots or even after, is the same as someone stealing from a shop during the riots! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 They the Government have, broadly speaking ie relating to ALL who took part in the riots and that to me is sub judice, when you urge the courts to be firmer than usual. That is plain and simple telling the judge to be firmer, when the judge and courts should be left to impose the right sentence, as someone who had been caught and charged for the same offense previous to the riots. A murder before the riots is the same as a murder during the riots, as much as a person stealing from a shop prior to the riots or even after, is the same as someone stealing from a shop during the riots! Ok, to clarify someone who ambles into a shop sneaks a bottle of water or whatever into a coat pocket is the same crime and deserves the same punishment as someone part of a violent mob who takes everything else, smashes a window(s) may or may not assault the staff and/or burn it to the ground and move on to another shop. They are not the same and need to be punished differently, alot differently. Thats like comparing a battered wife who kills her husband to someone who killed a stranger for jollies. I'm not a lawyer but isn't that mitigating circumstances ? They get what they deserve, on the whole. In fact this petty thievery, violence etc needs to be handled like this all the time, at least for a while to see if it does help reduce crime. The current pre riot approach isn't working and hasn't done for years, or we arguably wouldn't have had a riot in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sidney Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't think anyone is saying the rioters shouldn't be punished and to describe me a "lefty?" well that made me laugh. But we have a situation here where we have politicians whipping up public opinion against a group of people when they are much worse. They may wear suits and have posh educations and the rioters wear hoodies and carry dole cards but the two are very much the same. Its those at the bottom that get the unpleasant end of the stick though. They cause wars, then send others to die in the cause. Its funny how not one MP's son or daughter is currently fighting overseas. I wonder how many shop windows were smashed in Iraq? Nobody says the rioters shouldn't be punished but they should be punished by the same rules as anyone else. MP's didn't get justice when their frauds were highlighted. They didn't even lose their jobs. Cameron and the likes don't give one hoot, usually, for the communities that have suffered most during the riots. Their outrage is more to do with the safety of their seats than a desire to help anyone. The tories and new labour have been torching communities for decades, they were a bit smarter than the rioters though. We. the British public, are mugs for falling for their deceit time and time again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joiner andy Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I don't think anyone is saying the rioters shouldn't be punished and to describe me a "lefty?" well that made me laugh. But we have a situation here where we have the government whipping up public opinion against a group of people when they are much worse. They may wear suits and have posh educations and the rioters wear hoodies and carry dole cards but the two are very much the same. Its those at the bottom that get the unpleasant end of the stick though. They cause wars, then send others to die in the cause. Its funny how not one MP's son or daughter is currently fighting overseas. Nobody says the rioters shouldn't be punished but they should be punished by the same rules as anyone else. MP's didn't get justice when their frauds were highlighted. They didn't even lose their jobs. Cameron and the likes don't give one hoot, usually, for the communities that have suffered most during the riots. Their outrage is more to do with the safety of their seats than a desire to help anyone. The tories and new labour have been torching communities for decades, they were a bit smarter than the rioters though. We. the British public, are mugs for falling for their deceit time and time again.. well said! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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