chem1st Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Just because I sell a service doesn't make it immoral. By that extension anyone selling a service that everyone needs - like say a grocer, or a pharmacist, is living off immoral earnings. Is Granville the grocer earning immorally? Is the man at the local Vantage chemist doing so? What about someone selling clothing at the market? You seek rent, property laws give you an advantage. Your not creating wealth, your seeking to extract it from others. The laws allowing you that advantage are unjust. Your earnings from rent are immoral. If you build to let (for a set amount of time to reclaim the costs of building and make a small profit, fair enough), but buy to let, immoral. You might want to also choose your words more carefully. Living off immoral earnings is a crime. Think wisely before you falsely accuse or imply someone is committing a crime. Immoral is a perfect description. I didn't say what you are doing is criminal in a legal sense, but is definitely criminal in a moral sense. The laws are not worth the paper they are written on, the laws are unjust. They have been manipulated for private profit, they are not laws of the people. Then they should find somewhere less exensive to live because that's foolish. My tenants are not paying anywhere near that price, but nice one with the insinuations. The likes of housing benefit set a minimum price, social rents have been rising above inflation for a decade. You have an unfair advantage when exploiting others. There is no free market in the level of rent. Sorry but what labour? They are not working for me - they work for their employers. I'm making a modest amount off of the risk I took one when I purchased two properties and spent *my* money making them fit for habitation. Otherwise, that would be two properties that would not be used at all for habitation. Again housing benefit gives you an unfair advantage by setting a minimum price, allowing you to extract the value of their labour. What makes you think I don't? If you do that's good, I recommend you earn all of your money in that manner. Like the business I founded and now run that employs a good dozen or more people? Ooops - kinda just blew your righteous indigation out the water didn;t it sunshine. What have *you* done then? What are you doing to house people - apart from whine and pule and insult and berate and libel others? The current housing market is denying me the ability to build capital, and be able to invest it in productive labour, our economy is a joke, and needs to be reset, so productive labour can be invested in, rather than house price speculation driven by lax credit. I've worked in a variety of jobs, I have produced enough food to feed myself and multiple other people, I have advanced science by carrying out research, and I will be working for another 45 years and do much much more. I could be doing a lot more, but the economy is preventing productive labour from taking place. You say that with no idea of what places I own and rent, without knowing the prices of them. Do you abuse and insult everyone you encounter in this fashion in real life as well? What do you rent, how much do you charge? How much do you extract in rent from your tenants as a proportion of THEIR labour. I do tell people that I disagree with their behaviour, yes. I object to people deriving income (and being allowed to via legal privilege) from rent when they could be doing some productive, yes. For your information, I have place two items of housing stock into the market. That *creates* housing, that *makes* housing available, that permits people to live where they want to. You have put them into auction? And will restrict the sale to people buying a home in which to live? You will need to back your position up with an argument rather than just spouting an unsupported position. I have stated the advantages given to you by the law. What of them? If they were not happy I'm certain they would move. They are clearly happy here having renewed the tenancy a few times now. Perhaps, but their options are vastly limited due to planing and law. Be very careful - that keyboard you hide behind is not as anonymous as you may think. That sounds like a threat. If you try to cause me harm I will defend myself and seek retribution. Exploitation "exploitation involves a persistent social relationship in which certain persons are being mistreated or unfairly used for the benefit of others" Tenants are exploited by their landlords. It's not persistent - they can move. They are not being mistreated - they are getting accomodation at LESS THAN THE MARKET average price. They are not being USED - if anything they are USING my property. If they want to buy a similar place the mortgage would be more than the rent. Perhaps they can move, but their options are severely restricted by the state. I'm amazed you can read my mind. You are totally incorrect in my intentions btw. Maybe so, I speak in general, some landlords will be really bad, and some not that bad, but having none whatsoever is better. You really do have issues don't you. Yes and I detest the unfair system that allows and encourages exploitation. I bought a pair of houses that had been gutted - as in no roofs, floors, just the shell. I then built these backup into units. For that I'm the scum of the earth? So what have you done then to help? Well? Anything? Thought not. Doing the houses up is a good thing, and for that you should be paid a fair price, the ownership of property over others though. Well, I beg to differ. If you repaired properties and profited from the repair, but did not seek ownership of property for rent seeking, then I would be praising you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike84 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 You seek rent, property laws give you an advantage. Your not creating wealth, your seeking to extract it from others. The laws allowing you that advantage are unjust. Your earnings from rent are immoral. If you build to let (for a set amount of time to reclaim the costs of building and make a small profit, fair enough), but buy to let, immoral. Immoral is a perfect description. I didn't say what you are doing is criminal in a legal sense, but is definitely criminal in a moral sense. The laws are not worth the paper they are written on, the laws are unjust. They have been manipulated for private profit, they are not laws of the people. The likes of housing benefit set a minimum price, social rents have been rising above inflation for a decade. You have an unfair advantage when exploiting others. There is no free market in the level of rent. Again housing benefit gives you an unfair advantage by setting a minimum price, allowing you to extract the value of their labour. If you do that's good, I recommend you earn all of your money in that manner. The current housing market is denying me the ability to build capital, and be able to invest it in productive labour, our economy is a joke, and needs to be reset, so productive labour can be invested in, rather than house price speculation driven by lax credit. I've worked in a variety of jobs, I have produced enough food to feed myself and multiple other people, I have advanced science by carrying out research, and I will be working for another 45 years and do much much more. I could be doing a lot more, but the economy is preventing productive labour from taking place. What do you rent, how much do you charge? How much do you extract in rent from your tenants as a proportion of THEIR labour. I do tell people that I disagree with their behaviour, yes. I object to people deriving income (and being allowed to via legal privilege) from rent when they could be doing some productive, yes. You have put them into auction? And will restrict the sale to people buying a home in which to live? I have stated the advantages given to you by the law. Perhaps, but their options are vastly limited due to planing and law. That sounds like a threat. If you try to cause me harm I will defend myself and seek retribution. Tenants are exploited by their landlords. Perhaps they can move, but their options are severely restricted by the state. Maybe so, I speak in general, some landlords will be really bad, and some not that bad, but having none whatsoever is better. Yes and I detest the unfair system that allows and encourages exploitation. Doing the houses up is a good thing, and for that you should be paid a fair price, the ownership of property over others though. Well, I beg to differ. If you repaired properties and profited from the repair, but did not seek ownership of property for rent seeking, then I would be praising you. Is this a serious post or what? Surely it can't be... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Is this a serious post or what? Surely it can't be... it probably is, chem starts a thread about this almost every friday afternoon. he seems to have such a big chip on his shoulder about this i'm surprised his arm hasn't fallen off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike84 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 it probably is, chem starts a thread about this almost every friday afternoon. he seems to have such a big chip on his shoulder about this i'm surprised his arm hasn't fallen off if there was any substance or content that was worth discussing though it gets lost in what comes across as rambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Contributing to this thread and I do NOT agree that everyone has the right to a home, let me explain. everyone has a right to a home, whether it's bought, rented or whatever is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 You seek rent, <predictable unsupportable and unsubstaniable diatribe snipped> Your right to free speech ends where it libels others. Rememeber that. Next time you start on with your unsupportable rubbish remember you haven't been able to answer even the simplest of questions. Why is housing "special" in your world view, and why are landlords evil scum, and people selling things as necessary - like say, grocers, perfectly acceptable? Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 Your right to free speech ends where it libels others. Rememeber that. Next time you start on with your unsupportable rubbish remember you haven't been able to answer even the simplest of questions. Why is housing "special" in your world view, and why are landlords evil scum, and people selling things as necessary - like say, grocers, perfectly acceptable? Well? You haven't even responded to any of the points I have raised. Can I expect a response addressing the points? Rather than posting abuse that addresses nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obelix Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Sorry that's not how it works. You posted stuff, I responded. I'm waiting for a simple answer from you. Why is housing "special"? Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike84 Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 You haven't even responded to any of the points I have raised. Can I expect a response addressing the points? Rather than posting abuse that addresses nothing... Funny because I have read a comprehensive response to all the points that you have raised by the the poster. Your ramblings on the other hand don't provide any substance or evidence to back up anything that you have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 I've just looked at my right move app and found 75 properties for sale under £50,000 in Sheffield. Some are flats others houses some MIGHT be shared ownership (I only say that cause it looked nice) some of them will be fixer-uppers others in less than delightful areas. Look and ye shall find. Rather easily, took me 30 seconds. Unless what you really mean is the right to a roof over your head somewhere nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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