mj.scuba Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Oh come on now. How can you be subversively coerced into the observance of a religious practice? If you don't believe in it you don't believe in it, end of. Using your own example, if the Pope blessed Derwent reservoir would we all become coerced practicing Catholics by drinking the water? Have you really nothing better to worry about in life! John X We wouldn't be being coerced into being practicing Catholics, but we would be being coerced into taking part in Catholic religious folly, like it or not. The fact that you may not be a Catholic and therefor don't believe in Holy Water matters not one iota. If that was even proposed I'd do my utmost to prevent it from happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted September 5, 2011 Author Share Posted September 5, 2011 What's your point? None of those marriages are recognised as such under English Law, any more than David Blunkett's paramours were considered his legal partners-yet he still managed to father a child through one of them..as did Cecil Parkinson and Tim Yeo and probably many more I can't think of.Isolated cases that amass to nothing compared to polygamy within the UK. Posted by boyfriday ..and all your huffing & puffing is of no consequence unless you can tell us how many Muslims are engaged in polygamous relationships and if so what influences are incumbent upon them. According to recent findings there were over 2000 polygamous marriages in the UK. If I can I'll find the link for you. Posted by boyfriday As I said earlier, I can't think of one Muslim I know who is in a polygamous marriage conducted under Sharia Law. I'm not suggesting that you need know of any, I'm just pointing out the difference that you were unable to identify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big time Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Oh come on now. How can you be subversively coerced into the observance of a religious practice? If you don't believe in it you don't believe in it, end of. Using your own example, if the Pope blessed Derwent reservoir would we all become coerced practicing Catholics by drinking the water? Have you really nothing better to worry about in life! John X Theres a bit more to something being Halal than people just saying its Halal and there being a Halal label on it, It will have been slaughtered the Halal way in what is essentially a religious ceremony. Have you not considered that many people resent eating something that has been slaughted in religious ceremony, if its the only meat available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John X Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 but we would be being coerced into taking part in Catholic religious folly, like it or not. No you would not! All this nonsense is based on faith. Holy water is just water -H20. Halal meat is just meat -protein and a bit of fat. They only take on more meaning if you believe they do. If you don't, then they are just meat and water. The 'folly' as you call it, it the belief that these things are anything else. You cannot be coerced into that belief. John X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Isolated cases that amass to nothing compared to polygamy within the UK. But you don't know to what extent 'polygamy' is in the UK According to recent findings there were over 2000 polygamous marriages in the UK. If I can I'll find the link for you. ..and even if it's true it's hardly likely to have any material influence on the question posed by your thread is it, especially as many of them will not be child bearing. I'm not suggesting that you need know of any, I'm just pointing out the difference that you were unable to identify. But the 'difference' is irrelevant if the numbers involved are minuscule. The other issue you've overlooked is the whole polygamy thing in terms of the birth rate is a total red herring. If polygamous marriages were perfectly legal, it still wouldn't have any material effect on the birth rate since there isn't an endless supply of Muslim women to procreate with. Babies born will be roughly 50/50 male and female, so since in polygamous marriages a man can have several wives but a woman can only have one husband, the same number of women are procreating as would be if they were in monogamous marriages. The husband with 4 wives has effectively taken 3 'out of circulation' who would have been having children with someone else otherwise. Ironically, in polygamous societies the birth rate might be lower than monogamous ones, since one man is having to support many wives and children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 No you would not! All this nonsense is based on faith. Holy water is just water -H20. Halal meat is just meat -protein and a bit of fat. They only take on more meaning if you believe they do. If you don't, then they are just meat and water. The 'folly' as you call it, it the belief that these things are anything else. You cannot be coerced into that belief. John X Well, as a none religious person, I believe I would be, regardless of whatever argument you put forward. It's a bit like trying to argue that a person cannot be offended by something in particular, when in fact we're at liberty to be offended, and no amount of arguing that it (whatever it might be) is not offensive, will not make the offended person un-offended, because it's up to them to be offended, it's not really down to you to insist that it is not possible for that person to be offended by it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John X Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 will not make the offended person un-offended, because it's up to them to be offended, not down to you. But you're not talking about being offended, you're talking about being forced to partake in someone else's religious practices. I'm telling you that it makes no sense logically. If you think it does and are offended by it then that is down to you, not some creeping 'Islamification' which seems to exist only in some people's minds. Like I said earlier, is that all you have to worry about in life? John X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 But you're not talking about being offended, you're talking about being forced to partake in someone else's religious practices. I'm telling you that it makes no sense logically. If you think it does and are offended by it then that is down to you, not some creeping 'Islamification' which seems to exist only in some people's minds. Like I said earlier, is that all you have to worry about in life? John X Of course, using your logic, it would not matter if an ultra-Christian fundamentaist government took hold and forced us all to go to Church and say Grace before every meal even in public restaurants. Since if you don't believe in it, other than the inconvenience, the religious element wouldn't matter and would be no grounds for complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big time Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 But you're not talking about being offended, you're talking about being forced to partake in someone else's religious practices. I'm telling you that it makes no sense logically. If you think it does and are offended by it then that is down to you, not some creeping 'Islamification' which seems to exist only in some people's minds. Like I said earlier, is that all you have to worry about in life? John X Theres no hope for you, your'e an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted September 5, 2011 Share Posted September 5, 2011 Nothing like the same thing. You yourself are being forced to do something, in the other instances you are not. The only way (in your blessing example) that you are being forced into doing something is if you believe in the blessing in the first place. It's forced consumption of religious practice, it doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, you don't need to believe in it, you're still being forced to partake in that religious practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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