Assuming Britain actually is a secular country- can it remain so?

[danot]

No I just googled and blindly hoped that the 1st link I found backed up my position

 

The link does not support your assumption as the professional demographers who drew up the report expect the muslim birthrate to decline (both in the UK and worldwide), if you read the report they give lots of reasons as to why this decline is likely.

 

In stark contrast you have stated that you expect the birthrate the remain constant and you have given no reasons of any kind as to why.

How so?

 

The link states that the European muslim population is expected to increase by one third over the next 20 years, and that the US has an increasing muslim population, primarily due to immigration. How can projections such as these not support my assumptions?

[John X]

considering many muslim wives are bought to the UK by the husband who has dual nationality.

 

I thought we'd already established that that wasn't actually true?

 

At the end of the day one woman can only produce one baby* from one man's sperm every 9 months.

 

No cultural, religious or polygamous marital arrangement can change that.

 

It's nature, as David Attenborough would say.

 

John X

 

*on average

[danot]

What's this got to do with the innumerate drivel about polygamy and birthrates which you were spouting a few posts back?

The polygamy issue was mainly about the legality of such marriages within the UK. I didn't actually make any suggestion that would lead you to think I consider the birthrate in polygamous marriages to be higher than in monogamous one's.

[LeMaquis]

How so?

 

The link states that the European muslim population is expected to increase by one third over the next 20 years, and that the US has an increasing muslim population, primarily due to immigration. How can projections such as these not support my assumptions?

 

The increases expected are increases on tiny figures. I think 3% of the British population is Muslim so if it went up by a third it would still be a tiny figure especially given the number of Christians coming in from Poland and then settling here and having children. I would stop worrying if I were you and just get on with life.

[boyfriday]

Actually, I initially referred to polygamous marriages only because you claimed that 'you don't need to be married to procreate', which may be true, but is nonetheless, irrelevant to the point I was making.

 

I said that in response to this post of yours, what is the relevance to how many wives there are in 'those marriages' if it isn't to suggest polygamy increases the birthrate?

Serious question- how many wives were there in those marriages?

 

You explained that there's only a limited number of potential wives available to muslim men, regardless of whether they plan to enter into a polygamous marriage or a monogamous one. Which, once again may be true, but is still irrelevant as many muslim marriages are arranged by dowry which would, to all intents and purposes, provide muslim men with a constant supply of potential wives considering many muslim wives are bought to the UK by the husband who has dual nationality.

 

We've already established that wives cannot be brought into the country if a man is already married and it's forbidden for a man who is domiciled in Britain to go abroad and marry someone if he's already married-it's called bigamy.

 

You also seemed to disregard Halibut's response to your post above. He said he didn't know of any Muslims who were in polygamous marriages.

 

You yourself said that the estimate was for 2000 such liaisons in the UK, even if half involve women of child bearing age do you honestly believe the number of children produced will materially affect the issue you raised in your OP.

[boyfriday]

The polygamy issue was mainly about the legality of such marriages within the UK.

So the number of wives a Muslim man might have is totally irrelevant to your thread?

[danot]

So do you now agree that raising the issue of polygamy was a red herring and alarmist distraction?

No really. Considering muslim wives are readily available to muslim men outside of the UK should the UK supply be exhausted.

[boyfriday]

The increases expected are increases on tiny figures. I think 3% of the British population is Muslim so if it went up by a third it would still be a tiny figure especially given the number of Christians coming in from Poland and then settling here and having children. I would stop worrying if I were you and just get on with life.

 

That's absolutely right, the estimate for Muslims currently resident in the UK is one million, so based on the projection it's estimated to be 1.3 million in 20 years time.

[danot]

Ismalic Law recognises up to 4 wives per man provided he spends an equal amunt of time and money with them. UK Law recognises polygamy as long as it takes place outside the UK i.e. a man can bring more than one wife to this country legally. However polygamy also takes place among Mormons and Christians in the USA although it's not legal. One of the organisations that practises polygamy is the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. In Utah 2% of the population live in polygamous households. Many states recognise polygamy under civil law, including India, Sri Lanka and South Africa, none of which are majority Muslim by any means.

Your first point supports the initial claim I made on polygamy laws within the UK.

[boyfriday]

Your first point supports the initial claim I made on polygamy laws within the UK.

 

But it isn't the case though, if it were there would be far more than the 1000 polygamous marriages in the UK that the DWP refer to.