boyfriday Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Maybe because most people don't fear being called a sinner by a catholic, after all, it's not the catholic's that consider it honorable to command death on anyone who criticizes it's teachings. :hihi: This claim in your OP is becoming laughable now, any credibility you might have had has long evaporated! This isn't a Bible bashing or Anti Islam post either before anyone asks, It's simply a straight forward question based on observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 what makes you think that kids born into muslim families 2 generations on will be muslim Good point - looking at the many Muslim famlies I know it certainly wouldn't surprise me if mosque attendance fell very sharply over the next few generations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Maybe because most people don't fear being called a sinner by a catholic, after all, it's not the catholic's that consider it honorable to command death on anyone who criticizes it's teachings. Strange idea. I'm a 'sinner' in many religious eyes (Muslim included). I drink, i smoke and i'm not married to the mother of my children. Over the last four years, have a guess how many of the several jundred Muslims I know and have worked with have acalled me a sinner? Go on, you know you want to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 It is a reasonable question to ask if you believe polygamy enhances the birthrate, but I think we've covered the reasons why it doesn't ad nauseum.But it could as any additional wives a muslim man is entitled to marry under Islamic law don't necessarily need to be immigrants, they could just as easily be British nationals that marry a muslim. Posted by boyfriday ..and as has already been discussed a religious marriage conducted in the UK is not legally recognised unless it's registered and if so only one such arrangement is allowed. Married men, domiciled in the UK cannot go abroad to marry someone in a religious ceremony and bring them back to the UK because they would be committing bigamy. So if a muslim man enters into a marriage which satisfies the legal requirements of UK laws, but then, in accordance to Islamic law; enters into three additional marriages, would he be thrown in court and prosecuted for committing bigamy?.. of course he wouldn't, why would he?, he's committed no crime under UK legislation, yet, under Islamic law, he has four wives. Posted by boyfriday It establishes that no one so far in this discussion has ever encountered a polygamous Muslim marriage, Halibut has experience of dealing with Muslim families so his observations are slightly more credible than your speculations or indeed mine. His experience in this area must also make the loophole in UK legislation; which allows the act of polygamy under Islamic law acutely apparent to him also. Which is what you're both arguing against funnily enough. Posted by boyfriday You're perfectly entitled to believe whatever you want to believe, but that doesn't ground your belief in fact unless you have evidence to support it. I strongly believe I'm going to win Euromillions on Friday, but sadly experience has taught me the likelihood is otherwise. You've the same chance as anyone else who pays their £2 BF. Do the math. Posted by boyfriday ..and again if this is true, how exactly does it relate to the point you raise in your OP, without any examination of how many people this involves. I gave an example earlier of a Muslim man (the athlete Mo Farah), who came here from Somalia and married a British girl and is step father to her daughter. He has no biological children himself. He is just as likely to inspire the British youths born of immigrants from the areas you speak of. How many more do you know of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 ..because you keep ignoring the fact that a man cannot leave the UK to marry someone from abroad and bring them back to the UK as their wife.I'm not ignoring that fact, I'm simply conscious of the fact that UK legislation won't prevent him marrying additional wives in accordance to Islamic law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 But it could as any additional wives a muslim man is entitled to marry under Islamic law don't necessarily need to be immigrants, they could just as easily be British nationals that marry a muslim. Whatever way you describe it danot the population is roughly 50/50 men and women, if there was a significant imbalance of women, then you might have a point, but there isn't-whether they're immigrants or natives. So if a muslim man enters into a marriage which satisfies the legal requirements of UK laws, but then, in accordance to Islamic law; enters into three additional marriages, would he be thrown in court and prosecuted for committing bigamy?.. of course he wouldn't, why would he?, he's committed no crime under UK legislation, yet, under Islamic law, he has four wives. You're still not listening are you? You said that the supply of Muslim women could be enhanced by British men marrying women abroad and bringing them into the UK. If they're married already that would be illegal, if they're unmarried they could apply to bring one wife into the country, just as any other British citizen has the ability to do so. His experience in this area must also make the loophole in UK legislation; which allows the act of polygamy under Islamic law acutely apparent to him also. Which is what you're both arguing against funnily enough. One man can legally marry one woman in this country, he could have a thousand mistresses and call them his wives if he (and they) wanted to..but only his legally registered marriage would be the one that was recognised, what religion he is or isn't is irrelevant. Any polygamous 'marriage' is not a legally registered one so it's treated as "void", as though it hasn't taken place. You've the same chance as anyone else who pays their £2 BF. Do the math. Indeed and the chances are infinitesimal, so I'm not about to stake my house on a successful outcome. How many more do you know of? I don't know of the personal arrangements of any Somalian Muslims, how many do you know of who come from the areas that you've highlighted as having high birthrates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeMaquis Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 So if a muslim man enters into a marriage which satisfies the legal requirements of UK laws, but then, in accordance to Islamic law; enters into three additional marriages, would he be thrown in court and prosecuted for committing bigamy?.. of course he wouldn't, why would he?, he's committed no crime under UK legislation, yet, under Islamic law, he has four wives. His experience in this area must also make the loophole in UK legislation; which allows the act of polygamy under Islamic law acutely apparent to him also. Which is what you're both arguing against funnily enough. UK Law only recognises monogamy. If a UK citizen went abroad and married a second or further woman under Sharia Law that marriage would not be recognised under UK Law. He might be able to bring the wife to Britain to live with him but she wouldn't be recognised as his wife legally. In any case, why do you get worked up about such irrelevant hypotheses? How many people are we talking about here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I'm not ignoring that fact, I'm simply conscious of the fact that UK legislation won't prevent him marrying additional wives in accordance to Islamic law. You use the term "marrying", but they are not legally registered marriages, it's like you and your six year old girlfriend getting tarted up and having the family dog put on a nice collar and marry you, in front of Tinky Winky and La-La acting as witnesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 In any case, why do you get worked up about such irrelevant hypotheses? How many people are we talking about here? Even by his own reckoning we're talking about 2000 marriages here, not all of which of course are currently child bearing. The DWP puts the figure at less than 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrod Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Britain is a Christian country, always has been, always will be.Really? I wonder if you know how many people still go to church on Sundays?About 7%, but that's irrelevant. In the 2011 YouGov poll, 53% of UK respondents identified themselves as Christian. But there are many reasons that we are quite rightly identified as Christian nation. - Our laws and governance are based on the teachings of the Bible and the Ten Commandments - our legislature has modernised but its derivation from the Christian principles is plain for any to see. - About a million people attend church on Sundays, roughly the same figure as attend league football (do you dispute football as a national sport for the UK?). - 10% of the population attend some sort of Christian service on Christmas day. That's 3 million people. - 85% of people visit a church at some time during the year, whether that be for worship or attendance of funerals/weddings - Our monarch and head of state is also the defender of our faith. Our Lords, MPs, senior civil servants, Policemen and military leader are sworn into their positions by Christian oaths. - Many people choose to marry in church (I suppose among those who wish their children to be legitimised, at any rate). About 80% of Catholics and a quarter of protestants still marry in church. And when's the last time you came across somebody whose dying wishes or family demanded a non-Christian burial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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