Assuming Britain actually is a secular country- can it remain so?

[danot]

It's an analogy danot, simply intended to demonstrate the ridiculous nature of your hypothesis.

Why is it ridiculous? You seem to be suggesting that the UK could never become a Islamic nation, why is that?

 

posted by boyfriday

Muslims are no more taking over or likely to than the BBC are likely to subjugate the population of Sheffield into becoming United supporters.

Actually, I knew exactly what (who) you were referring to.

 

However, I still don't see why you're using your analogy to compare muslims with hooligans, which to me, suggests that you feel that there are certain principles that relate the two or something?

[boyfriday]

About 7%, but that's irrelevant. In the 2011 YouGov poll, 53% of UK respondents identified themselves as Christian.

 

But there are many reasons that we are quite rightly identified as Christian nation.

 

- Our laws and governance are based on the teachings of the Bible and the Ten Commandments - our legislature has modernised but its derivation from the Christian principles is plain for any to see.

 

- About a million people attend church on Sundays, roughly the same figure as attend league football (do you dispute football as a national sport for the UK?).

 

- 10% of the population attend some sort of Christian service on Christmas day. That's 3 million people.

 

- 85% of people visit a church at some time during the year, whether that be for worship or attendance of funerals/weddings

 

- Our monarch and head of state is also the defender of our faith.

Our Lords, MPs, senior civil servants, Policemen and military leader are sworn into their positions by Christian oaths.

 

- Many people choose to marry in church (I suppose among those who wish their children to be legitimised, at any rate). About 80% of Catholics and a quarter of protestants still marry in church.

 

And when's the last time you came across somebody whose dying wishes or family demanded a non-Christian burial?

 

Brilliant! So what's the OP sweating about then I wonder?

 

Oh I know, some wicked Muslim must have conned him into eating a halal turkey swizzler and he thinks he's been Islamified

[boyfriday]

Why is it ridiculous? You seem to be suggesting that the UK could never become a Islamic nation, why is that?

Well certainly not in my lifetime, but if it's something my children and my children's children aren't worried about or feel threatened by, then that's up to them, don't bother me one jot, I'll be long dead.

 

However, I still don't see why you're using your analogy to compare muslims with hooligans, which to me, suggests that you feel that there are certain principles that relate the two or something?

I'm not comparing Muslims to hooligans, I'm comparing your daft hypothesis to an equally daft one of my own.

[danot]

It was in the article that someone linked to earlier, it dates back to 2008

 

"A DWP spokesman said: 'There are fewer than 1,000 polygamous marriages in the UK and only a small percentage of these are claiming social security benefit."

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512043/Muslim-husbands-wife-extra-benefits-ministers-recognise-polygamy.html#ixzz1XAXXQiMq

 

But even if it is 2000 as you suggest, not all of the women will be of child bearing age and the numbers involved will hardly create enough new Muslims to challenge the fear expressed in your OP.

Preventing any additional wives that a muslim man might have from receiving state benefit isn't really comparable to being prosecuted under UK bigamy laws is it? Anyhow, there's no reason to assume they'd be dependent on benefits is there?

[boyfriday]

Preventing any additional wives that a muslim man might have from receiving state benefit isn't really comparable to being prosecuted under UK bigamy laws is it? Anyhow, there's no reason to assume they'd be dependent on benefits is there?

 

Why would anyone be prosecuted under 'bigamy laws'?

 

How does the (possible) existence of men in relationships with a number of women threaten the birthrate to such an extent that Muslims will change the constitution of this country?

 

Ps; What have benefits got to do with the quoted figure of 1000 anyway?

[Conrod]

Brilliant! So what's the OP sweating about then I wonder?

Probably that those figures are markedly reduced in just a decade or two, like the % of Church of England weddings down from 80-odd% to 25% in less than 2 decades.

 

We may for now be a Christian nation, but unless the immigrant communities start practicing abstinence from nookie in the next few days and stick to it for 50 years, our ethnic demographics - and along with that our religious balance - is going to swing massively and rapidly.

 

Oh I know, some wicked Muslim must have conned him into eating a halal turkey swizzler and he thinks he's been Islamified

I for one will never buy KFC knowing that is has appeased the loud minority by going over to Halal meat (mind you, I’m not so sure I’d be that keen on greasy fried rat they sell if I knew it came from the grounds of a Monastery either).

[buck]

The OP posed a valid question, the largest secular democracy in the world is slowly but surely succumbing to religious rule. Each time the Republicans get elected in the USA a little more of the state's policies are dictated by the Christian fundamentalists.

 

If the OP is seriously worried about this country losing its secularity I think he should be more concerned by influences from across the pond. You've only got to look at the money behind attempts to push back our liberal abortion laws.

 

In my mind, the Christian right is a far bigger and more sinister threat than any perceived Islamification (sic) of this country.

The United States are not succumbing to religious rule. There are and always have been those who insist that this is a christian country, especially the Republican Party who use it as an election tool. But due to the insistance by such groups as the American Civil Rights Union that no one religion will have any preference over any other, such events as putting a creche outside a church at Christmas, or insisting that Christian prayers are held at a public school are banned in most states. As a counter, atheists are demanding that the word God be removed from currency, and from the Pledge of Allegiance. All of these annoyances have little or no effect on the people, who are free to go to any church, mosque, or synagogue of their choosing, or to go to a football, soccer, basketball, baseball game if they want without anybody else objecting, and even to fly the flag of any country they may have originated from.

[retep]

Strange idea. I'm a 'sinner' in many religious eyes (Muslim included).

I drink, i smoke and i'm not married to the mother of my children.

 

 

Over the last four years, have a guess how many of the several jundred Muslims I know and have worked with have acalled me a sinner?

Go on, you know you want to...

 

How would you know, unless of course you are fluent in their language.

[Conrod]

How would you know, unless of course you are fluent in their language.

He shoots, he scores.

[Cyclone]

How would you know, unless of course you are fluent in their language.

 

The assertion was that being called a sinner by a Muslim was a scary thing likely to see your life in danger. An obvious lie really.

 

Maybe because most people don't fear being called a sinner by a catholic

 

They also don't fear being called a sinner by a Muslim, or anyone else really. But if someone does as you imply call you a sinner in a different language it's hardly likely to bother you.