Assuming Britain actually is a secular country- can it remain so?

[boyfriday]

Well since marrying fist cousins, or marrying a girl that's just hit puberty is acceptable in many Islamic cultures there has to be more women available to them than there is to you or me.

Well even if it were true it still doesn't substantiate your claim, since those girls who've "just hit puberty" or are "first cousins" could only marry once and have one partner.

 

So if they weren't married after they hit puberty or to their first cousins, they would go on to marry someone else and have children with them, so they don't have more women available to them than you or me, that's nonsense it's the same number of women just distributed differently.

 

British citizens may have the ability, but do they have the inclination? Many factors that don't apply to none muslims have contributed to the increase of the UK muslim population, the majority of which are cultural.

You haven't yet established that the Muslim population has the 'inclination', you've just used supposition and innuendo.

 

I'm not disputing the UK legislation on polygamous marriages, I'm addressing the likelihood of a any children fathered by a muslim being raised according to Islamic law then adopting Islam as their faith. I find it highly unlikely that they'd be anything other than muslim. Highly unlikely.

..and once again, what you find likely or not likely is totally irrelevant if you can't support it with facts.

 

Children raised by Muslims are highly likely to be raised as Muslims, however the experiment is ongoing in the UK to see the influence of western culture on them as they develop, personally I see many Muslims who have adopted and are adopting more liberal attitudes.

 

One of which is the the approach to halal meat, where once it was not accepted to pre-stun meat, most Muslims accept that this is an acceptable compromise to make.

 

My own son tells me that many of his Muslim school mates are ambivalent about eating it at all off the school menu, their choices being driven by their food preference rather than the religious one. This is a fairly fundamental aspect of Muslim life and already is being eroded.

[boyfriday]

I haven't said it could directly, but I certainly believe it could become a contributing factor, or that it was a contributing factor that caused a rapid increase in the muslim population over the last few decades.

How so? You still have the same number of women procreating as would be in monogamous relationships!

Refusing to give benefits to any additional wives in a monogamous marriage is about the only legislative measure there is.

You're unfamiliar with the Married Women's Property Act then? Besides which there's no compunction in this country to be in a marital relationship with someone before you have children with them. Ps I'm assuming you meant 'polygamous marriage'?

[danot]

The assertion was that being called a sinner by a Muslim was a scary thing likely to see your life in danger. An obvious lie really.

A 'Satanic verse' would be a more fitting description.

 

 

 

Posted by Cyclone

They also don't fear being called a sinner by a Muslim, or anyone else really. But if someone does as you imply call you a sinner in a different language it's hardly likely to bother you.

Unless you're on fire.

[boyfriday]

BF- I don't think Danot even knew what this thread was aiming to establish.

 

Its all really just his hypothesis and as you say,based on no evidence.

 

My guess is the thread was raised to ruffle a few feathers- with the obvious word Islam being at the centre.

 

I suspect you're right Baz1, I just want to shake him out of his cage

 

You're a Muslim aren't you? If you are could you help us here? Are you married? Do you have more than one wife? Is it standard practice for Muslim men to have more than one wife?

[0114owl1867]

I've read quite a lot of this thread, BF and Danot (to me) both have valid points, I didn't think muslims could have more than one wife here in the UK but now I'm not sure and not bothered if they can or not, however in two generations time I think their religion will be even more like a 'cult' obsessive stupidness IMO - fancy living your life to a set of rules (both good and bad again IMO) to something that can't ever ever be proved (religion I mean) - you get one life - live it !!

[boyfriday]

I've read quite a lot of this thread, BF and Danot (to me) both have valid points, I didn't think muslims could have more than one wife here in the UK but now I'm not sure and not bothered if they can or not, however in two generations time I think their religion will be even more like a 'cult' obsessive stupidness IMO - fancy living your life to a set of rules (both good and bad again IMO) to something that can't ever ever be proved (religion I mean) - you get one life - live it !!

 

..and I think over time most Muslims will come to appreciate that 0114, since the attractions of the western life (both good and bad) are irresistible to children brought up under strict or dogmatic regimes.

[0114owl1867]

..and I think over time most Muslims will come to appreciate that 0114, since the attractions of the western life (both good and bad) are irresistible to children brought up under strict or dogmatic regimes.

 

A muslim mate said to me 'you know what religion is don't you j ? I said don't start trying to teach or convert me I had enough of it when I was a kid to last a lifetime, again he asked me the same question to which I replied 'no' I don't know what it is, go on then what is it ?

He then told me that religion, all religion is just a comfort to know that one day you are going to die, the comfort being that one day when you die you would go to a better place - I said 'and you believe that ? what a load of you know what, he shrugged his shoulders and said it was how he was brought up and didn't know anything else, I still see him now, these days he's got a mad long beard and just nods when he walks past me !!

[Halibut]

A muslim mate said to me 'you know what religion is don't you j ? I said don't start trying to teach or convert me I had enough of it when I was a kid to last a lifetime, again he asked me the same question to which I replied 'no' I don't know what it is, go on then what is it ?

He then told me that religion, all religion is just a comfort to know that one day you are going to die, the comfort being that one day when you die you would go to a better place - I said 'and you believe that ? what a load of you know what, he shrugged his shoulders and said it was how he was brought up and didn't know anything else, I still see him now, these days he's got a mad long beard and just nods when he walks past me !!

 

And the significance of that is...?

[danot]

Seems a normally rational poster like yourself Conrod has been bitten by the same Idiotbug that bit danot on the arse

 

I remember in the 70's the indigenous moaning about black immigrants taking 'their women' and the whole population eventually turning black, when in fact the opposite is becoming true as those mixed race children procreate with white people, it's more likely my own grandchildren will look more like you than they do me Conrod, I'd only lose sleep if they shared your political vision

 

It's likely young Muslims will follow the same path, as they share their development with non Muslims at school, university and work-notionally they might describe themselves as Muslims, as we describe ourselves as Christians in the post you so well articulated, but the reality is when push comes to shove it will have less and less meaning to them than it does the generations that preceded them.

I have to disagree with you there considering most mixed relationships have resulted in the women being required to convert to Islam. Muslim males of any generation are not as willing as you quite clearly believe they are to abandon Islam. Islam holds many unfair advantages for Muslim males which they're quite prepared to continue exploiting.

 

Posted by boyfriday

Many of the KFC franchises are owned by Muslims, it's the kind of thing they do well, so if anything they've been appeasing you by offering non halal meat in their outlets

 

But in all seriousness, you're the minority since the majority don't give a fig whether the meat is halal or not..the curry houses of the UK would be deserted every weekend if that wasn't the case.

I don't understand.

 

If you can respect and acknowledge that the meat must be halal if it is blessed in accordance with Islamic Law, why do you insist that additional wives are not actually wives when they're married in accordance with the same Islamic law?

[0114owl1867]

And the significance of that is...?

 

He just walks straight past me like I'm a stranger and doesn't stop to talk me even though I went through school with him from 5 - 16 years old halibut - why what's your problem this time ? (big sigh)