Assuming Britain actually is a secular country- can it remain so?

[John X]

It's self explanatory isn't it? Islamic law provides a Muslim man with a far greater number of potential child bearers than he'd be capable of having if he was a Christian or none religious.

 

But it's not, though is it?

 

If you have 100 fertile women of child-bearing age, it doesn't matter whether one man marries all 100 or they are married to one man each, the maximum number of children that can be produced in a 9 month period is 100* The marital structure within which these conceptions occur will not alter this, however much you may wish to believe it.

 

John X

 

*assuming 1 child per woman

[Mecky]

I don't think I've ever eaten sandwiches in a pub and I'm white British. You posted the following stupid comment recently - "Nobody likes muslims, even muslims don't like muslims. Muslims have more to fear from other muslims than any other people", which coupled with your above quote means I think that YOU don't like Muslims. There are over one billion Muslims on the planet so to try and generalise about them is to admit to a narrow mind. Would you generalise about Christians because of paedophile priests, a Pope who used to be in the Hitler Youth, EDL members urinating on Westminster Abbey, the student who urinated on a war memorial in Sheffield a couple of years ago, Harold Shipman, etc?

 

No I don't like muslims and I suspect you'll see a good reason why I think that over the weekend. Then again, who does? Just get over it.

[LeMaquis]

It's self explanatory isn't it? Islamic law provides a Muslim man with a far greater number of potential child bearers than he'd be capable of having if he was a Christian or none religious.

 

As Muslims are split 50-50 sex-wise it must mean that if a Muslim man has 4 wives then obviously there must be 3 other Muslim men without wives. That means that the man with 4 wives will have more children (if he has the energy) but the other 3 won't have any. In fact if he doesn't have the energy there may be fewer children than under monogamy. In other words polygamy won't mean any more children than monogamy would because the number of wives per man allowed isn't the issue. The number of child-bearing women is the issue. That's a bit obvious really.

[LeMaquis]

No I don't like muslims and I suspect you'll see a good reason why I think that over the weekend. Then again, who does? Just get over it.

 

Well at least your honest although I wonder how many of the one billion plus of them you've met. Over the weekend? Do you mean the 10th anniversary of September 11th? If you do you're generalising again. Most Muslims wouldn't support that.

[Frank Sidney]

Ah, that must be why they all go down the boozer and eat sandwiches then because they're really integrating with UK the host society aren't they (I say host society rather than UK society because it's the same all over the world). They do not leave their religion, if they were to try, they would probably be abandoned by their family at the very least and/or possibly killed.

 

I base some of my conclusion on speaking to Pakistani colleagues both male and female. I get the impression that many young Muslims, although they would remain faithful to Islam, find it all a bit restricting. Many smoke and drink and, believe it or not, get it on with girls of a different faith. When older generations have gone maybe they will feel more able to lead a more western lifestyle.

 

There are religious fanatics, of all faiths, that will stay just that, fanatics. They're a lost cause I'm afraid...

[boyfriday]

It's self explanatory isn't it? Islamic law provides a Muslim man with a far greater number of potential child bearers than he'd be capable of having if he was a Christian or none religious.

..and still the dimness pervades!

 

Islam doesn't view marriage in the same way we do, it's merely an arrangement designed to favor the dominant partner. This is why polygamy is accepted in Islam, and why it's remains a grey area in UK legislation and open to abuse.

 

How do you know how "we" view marriage? There's a whole range of opinions in the western world about marriage.

 

How do you know how Muslims feel about it?

 

More assumptions, and conjecture.

[boyfriday]

I base some of my conclusion on speaking to Pakistani colleagues both male and female. I get the impression that many young Muslims, although they would remain faithful to Islam, find it all a bit restricting. Many smoke and drink and, believe it or not, get it on with girls of a different faith. When older generations have gone maybe they will feel more able to lead a more western lifestyle.

 

There are religious fanatics, of all faiths, that will stay just that, fanatics. They're a lost cause I'm afraid...

 

Absolutely spot on

[John X]

Would you say they consider themselves as being of no religion, or Muslim?

 

I would say they probably would consider themselves Muslim.

 

But that would probably be more a cultural identification than a religious one.

 

I remember taking the **** out of my mate from Belfast about this when he kept on about Catholic this and Catholic that. "You never go to church, your daughter doesn't go to church, you haven't been to confession for over 20 years, you live 'in sin' with your girlfriend and you are always going on about bloody paedo priests. In what way are you a Catholic?", I would ask him".

 

Because to him 'Catholic' was a badge of identity, not a religion. To him, being a Catholic was being one of the oppressed minority. It meant being Irish not British, supporting the IRA not the British Army or the Police. Keeping your mouth shut in certain areas for fear of having your throat cut. Not because of the particular god that you did or did not worship on a Sunday, but because you were seen as 'one of them', the enemy.

 

And I assume that on the other side of the sectarian divide, there are as many Protestants who have never seen the inside of a kirk, but still identify themselves with the name of their religion.

 

So yes, many of those young people you mention may well describe themselves as Muslim but that does not mean they spend every waking minute of every day studying the Koran!

 

John X

[danot]

But the truth can only be distilled from comprehensive evidence. He's consistently claimed his position has been shaped by his 'observations'-I'm afraid that's not good enough. I related a story about my belief that most drivers speeding on the motorway were female, because I'd 'observed' it. Which turned out to be rubbish when it was put under analysis by my son for the remainder of our journey.

 

The fact is our personal observations are shaped by what we want to see or something that makes an experience stand out from the norm, in my case it was probably 10 or 20 female drives tearing up the tarmac on the M1, in danot's case it's seeing dark faces in burkas with half a dozen sprogs round their ankles, which incidentally could well be children they're minding just like women do in our society.

 

Ps: I hope you didn't have any more Red Stripe before bedtime 0114?

Would you consider the Koran "comprehensive evidence"?

 

By the way BF. Can I just ask if you'd be just as accepting of a mumbo-jumbo Christian ritual that allowed any man of Christian faith to enslave and exploit their female fellow Christians? Providing it wasn't recognized as slavery obviously, you know, because Christians were calling it something else.

[John X]

Can I just ask if you'd be just as accepting of a mumbo-jumbo Christian ritual

 

I don't think he is accepting of any mumbo-jumbo rituals of any denomination. He is simply pointing out that your use of it to back up your claims of potential population growth is flawed.

 

John X