Halibut Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 My bold: There you go again defending the police for automatically presuming the every Niqab wearer is a Muslim women that is unlikely to be criminally inclined. What reason have you (and the police) to automatically presume this? I've already said - there's no evidence to assume otherwise. If you have some, publish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 My bold: There you go again defending the police for automatically presuming the every Niqab wearer is a Muslim women that is unlikely to be criminally inclined. What reason have you (and the police) to automatically presume this? The lack of evidence that suggests otherwise. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 "They have no legal power to ask you to remove any item of clothing in public view, OTHER THAN that which is concealing your identity. Any facial masking can be confiscated." So if you don't remove it would it be illegal now go and look illegal up. That's correct, refusing to remove it in some circumstances would be a crime. Wearing it in the first place is not. Are you clear on that now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 its like talking to the three stooges. ..as opposed to talking to the one stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retep Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 That's correct, refusing to remove it in some circumstances would be a crime. Wearing it in the first place is not. Are you clear on that now? If there's no offence in wearing it how can there be an offence in not taking it off. Obviously it becomes an offence in the circumstances to wear it, which is why you are asked to remove it. so the offence in the first place is the wearing of it. Are you clear on that now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 If there's no offence in wearing it how can there be an offence in not taking it off. Obviously it becomes an offence in the circumstances to wear it, which is why you are asked to remove it. so the offence in the first place is the wearing of it. Are you clear on that now? Simple questions-is it an offence to wear a motorcycle helmet when not mounted on a motorbike? Is it an offence to wear a scarf wrapped around your face? Is it an offence to wear a balaclava? Is it an offence to refuse to reveal your face when a uniformed PC asks you to do so for identification purposes? Are burka wearers exempted from this requirement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 Honestly. You really need to have it explained why it's legal to wear it, but illegal to not remove it when required to do so for identification purposes? I don't know if I can explain it any more simple terms than have already been used. There is NO OFFENCE in wearing it. Otherwise the law would say so and you could be arrested for wearing it. The offence comes from keeping it in place when an S60aa order is in place and you refuse to remove it when asked to do so. It's that simple. (And it's under specific circumstances that are not the norm). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've actually got quotes from two police officers now to share. Unless there's a section section 60 order in place (authorising searches without reasonable suspicion), you're fine to wear a woolly face covering if you wish to do so. If there is one in place, you can be told to remove the face covering and failure to do would render you liable to arrest. If you do like wearing balaclavas, I would suggest not to do it in an area where there are a lot of muggings or burglaries . . Incidentally I've only known s60 be used on 2 occasions Detective (acting sergeant maybe, not sure). And Under a Sec 60AA of PACE you are required to remove any face covereings, but these have to be issued by a superintendent (or above) based on reasonable intelligence. So it's for things like where there are riots going on, or intell re fights (between schools or at football matches). So you should be fine. However, If I saw someone walking down the street wearing a balaclava I would be inclined to stop and search under sus going equipped to steal! Hope this helps! Not sure what position this guy holds, I went to uni with him. And a barrister contribute this Case in point: James Scott, arrested wearing a balaclava whilst canvassing for people to sign his petition. He refused to remove it, and was arrested for a breach of the peace (late 2006). Not charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 I've actually got quotes from two police officers now to share. Detective (acting sergeant maybe, not sure). And Not sure what position this guy holds, I went to uni with him. And a barrister contribute this Thank the lord, the truth will out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted September 12, 2011 Share Posted September 12, 2011 If there's no offence in wearing it how can there be an offence in not taking it off. Obviously it becomes an offence in the circumstances to wear it, which is why you are asked to remove it. so the offence in the first place is the wearing of it.Are you clear on that now? No, it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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