What is a moderate muslim?

[danot]

I've already made my comments, many times, about the contempt in which I hold the Taliban. For example the outrageous edict that women cannot receive an education:-

 

I said it before, and I'll say it again.

 

in Islam, both male AND female have the right to an education, and indeed, are obliged/ expected to gain an education, according to their capacity/ abilities.

 

In denying this right to the women in their society, the Taliban are going against their own scriptures.

 

My own personal opinion is that the Taleban are frightened that if the women gain enough knowledge to challenge their idiotic and misogynist views, they will lose any power they have over the women.

 

"Knowledge is power" and all that... I think they are such erm... "limp-members" - lol- to phrase it in a family friendly way - that they are terrified that a "mere" ( )woman may surpass them in learning and challenge their idiocy. (haha God-Forbid, eh! )

 

(edit to add:- see my sig line below which says "Some people think little girls should be seen and not heard. Oh bondage! up yours!" )

:hihi: But ... ya can't see'm cam ya?

[Halibut]

How is Islam taught? Am I wrong to say Islam is taught as it is written, with no room for interpretation? How is Sharia taught? is it put into modern contex? Does whats written later in the koran hold more sway than whats writen before? 3 simple questions.

I am saying that the koran and sharia are so extreme its impossible to be a muslim and moderate, in the sense of what this liberal society defines as moderate. Ill ask you this can a member of the National Front be a moderate, or by being a member of such an extreme organisation is that impossible?

 

You're utterly wrong.

[danot]

You're utterly wrong.

Why is he wrong. To be a moderate Muslim you'd need to ignore the more extreme/controversial/socially unacceptable aspects of Sharia law/Islam. Which might be viewed as being an half hearted Muslim. Same applies to any religion.

[LeMaquis]

Why is he wrong. To be a moderate Muslim you'd need to ignore the more extreme/controversial/socially unacceptable aspects of Sharia law/Islam. Which might be viewed as being an half hearted Muslim. Same applies to any religion.

 

In which case, why just single out Islam? Most Muslims, even in predominantly Muslim countries, don't live under Sharia Law. Therefore your harping on about it is a red herring. If Muslims aren't bothered about Sharia Law why should you be?

 

There are plenty of "extreme/controversial/socially unacceptable" aspects of Christianity which you've never got round to condemning. Loyalist death squads for example that the EDL likes to model itself on. Go on. Condemn them. By your thinking if your rules about Muslims are equally applied to Christians then any Christian who doesn't condemn Loyalist death squads can't be a Christian and therefore there are no moderate Christians.

[0114owl1867]

Arguments arguments arguments - you're on the sheffieldforum alright !

[LeMaquis]

What confuses me the most is how anyone in this day and age can be a Muslim. Or Christian or Jew for that matter.

 

If you're one of the above please note that God does not exist, its just a fairy tale and you're all wasting your lives...

 

I agree with you but unfortunately religion has a massive influence on most of humanity. If people only believed in the fairy tale side of it I could tolerate them but when religion leads to wars and all the other atrocities it has to be counteracted.

[LeMaquis]

All muslims are taught to take the koran at its word, as it is written. Or am i wrong?

 

The same cannot be said for the way Christians are taught. Or am i wrong?

 

Well, let's just take the example of Easter. Jesus is supposed to have risen from the dead. Nobody seems to have done that before or since except for a lucky few who've been resucitated by the emergency services immediately after they've expired. But Jesus apparently did it on his own 2,000 years ago without any equipment or NHS or the St John's Ambulance Brigade or anyone else with a First Aid certificate.

 

So Jesus apparently managed this and Christians are taught that he did and believe it. Easter Monday is a bank holiday and religious zealots put up posters in their window saying He Is Risen. Which would seem to prove that Christians are indeed taught that the bible is literally true. And they seem to believe it. And we get a bank holiday for it.

 

So you're wrong.

[danot]

In which case, why just single out Islam? Most Muslims, even in predominantly Muslim countries, don't live under Sharia Law. Therefore your harping on about it is a red herring. If Muslims aren't bothered about Sharia Law why should you be?

 

There are plenty of "extreme/controversial/socially unacceptable" aspects of Christianity which you've never got round to condemning. Loyalist death squads for example that the EDL likes to model itself on. Go on. Condemn them. By your thinking if your rules about Muslims are equally applied to Christians then any Christian who doesn't condemn Loyalist death squads can't be a Christian and therefore there are no moderate Christians.

You're accusing me of never criticizing Christianity? You have me confused.

 

Listen!!.. read rather. Islam, Christianity, it's all Nonesense, mumbo-jumbo to me, it's not real, which is why I'm on record for criticizing all three major religions with equal enthusiasm without fear or favour. If you do a little research you'll see that.

 

Incidentally, if you are one of those who take it really really seriously, who are you to be questioning or picking and choosing the ancient teachings of your religion that suit? who are you to criticize it's moral principles or unethical values when fully committed Muslims and truly devout Christians have honored and obeyed and never seen reason to question them throughout the millenniums?

 

That what is written is what is required of you.. take it or leave it, so don't lecture me on throwing a red herring, as you're in no position to.

[Plopqwerty]

Well, let's just take the example of Easter. Jesus is supposed to have risen from the dead. Nobody seems to have done that before or since except for a lucky few who've been resucitated by the emergency services immediately after they've expired. But Jesus apparently did it on his own 2,000 years ago without any equipment or NHS or the St John's Ambulance Brigade or anyone else with a First Aid certificate.

 

So Jesus apparently managed this and Christians are taught that he did and believe it. Easter Monday is a bank holiday and religious zealots put up posters in their window saying He Is Risen. Which would seem to prove that Christians are indeed taught that the bible is literally true. And they seem to believe it. And we get a bank holiday for it.

 

So you're wrong.

 

A good story which requires faith.

 

Here is another, which requires humanity

 

Using the KJV this time, in John 8:1 - 11 scribes and Pharisees had caught a woman in the act of adultery (the woman commonly referred to as the prostitute) and told Jesus who was teaching in the temple that the Mosaic Law required she be stoned to death. Trying to make an opportunity of this to trick Jesus that they might accuse Him, they, with stones in hand, asked Jesus what He says about the Law. After Jesus tried to ignore their repeated questioning, He told them "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." One by one each man dropped his stone and walked away.

 

Jesus was not arguing with the judgment. Nor was Jesus arguing the law nor the woman's guilt. Jesus was arguing with our right to execute the woman. Once all the men had dropped their stones Jesus confronted the woman and asked her if any of the men were still there to condemn her. When she answered "No man, Lord", Jesus told her that neither did He - He forgave her of her sin. He did not excuse the sin of adultery/prostitution, he forgave her of it. All behavior and thought that is sinful before forgiveness is still sinful after forgiveness. Not only was Jesus not afraid to call a sin a sin, He was not afraid to call a sinner a sinner. He even reminded her of the sin of adultery/prostitution by telling her "Go and sin no more."

 

 

 

 

a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.

 

Which nations and cultures stone people to death?

[VideoPro]

Which nations and cultures stone people to death?

 

Oh, we are playing that game, eh?

 

...anyone who blasphemes the name of the LORD must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death. (Leviticus 24:16)

 

If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death?the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)

 

If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the LORD gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the LORD your God in violation of his covenant, and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky, and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5)

 

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

 

If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid. (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)

 

'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' (Leviticus 20:27)

 

While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp." So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the LORD commanded Moses. (Numbers 15:32-36)

 

But seat two scoundrels opposite him and have them testify that he has cursed both God and the king. Then take him out and stone him to death." (1 Kings 21:10)