wednesday1 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 GDP rose over that period so the government had more money to spend but they increased their borrowing, when your income is low you borrow, as your income increases you pay it back and if it decreases again you borrow more. As GDP increases the deficit should decrease, as GDP decreases the deficit should increase. So you accept it was infact the Cons under Major who took Public Spending back up to 44%, when the economy was booming?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wednesday1 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 During the last Tory government, particularly during John Major's premiership, the Labour opposition and the press wipped themselves up into a frenzy over what was, looking back on it, a load of froth with little or no impact on the general public, yes there was the "cash for questions" row, but the brewhaha was centered around the personal sexual morality and marital fidelity of certern Tory MP's. Tony Blair has even apologised for all the sleaze attacks on John Majors government http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1570724/Tony-Blair-Im-sorry-for-sleaze-attacks.html Welcome back GetItDone, OneOfTheseDays etc,etc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 So you accept it was infact the Cons under Major who took Public Spending back up to 44%, when the economy was booming?! UK debt was falling and hit 24% in around 1991 half way through the 90-92 recession. After which debt rose to the peak of 42% in 1997. Debt levels then dropped until 2002 when it again started to climb. The 2008 recession hit and we where already back up to 36% debt and this has risen to our current levels. Yes the UK was back to prosperity but as with this recession and others before it, debt lags long after the recession has finished. UK debt rises appear to be, as in most countries, a direct result of recession and in recent history the UK has been no different. Well apart from post 2002 when Labour bucked the trend and started to build our debt back up, totally oblivious to the warning signs coming from across the world. But this is no surprise coming from a government that made the claim to have brought about an end to boom and bust. Pride before a fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wednesday1 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 UK debt was falling and hit 24% in around 1991 half way through the 90-92 recession. After which debt rose to the peak of 42% in 1997. Debt levels then dropped until 2002 when it again started to climb. The 2008 recession hit and we where already back up to 36% debt and this has risen to our current levels. Yes the UK was back to prosperity but as with this recession and others before it, debt lags long after the recession has finished. UK debt rises appear to be, as in most countries, a direct result of recession and in recent history the UK has been no different. Well apart from post 2002 when Labour bucked the trend and started to build our debt back up, totally oblivious to the warning signs coming from across the world. But this is no surprise coming from a government that made the claim to have brought about an end to boom and bust. Pride before a fall? So from your figs, until the worldwide credit crunch Labour had improved the debt situation from what they had inherited under the Cons as they had cut debt down from 42% to 36%. Back in 2002 there were no warning signs coming from across the world or anywhere else. As for pride before a fall, I think being wise after the event is more apt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Back in 2002 there were no warning signs coming from across the world or anywhere else. Oh no? The myth that "no one saw the financial crisis coming" is one particularly favored by apologists for that utterly incompetent cretin, Crash Gordon. Vince Cable picked him up on his spendthrift ways back in 2003: Here is a question Mr Cable’s posed to Gordon Brown, then Chancellor, during Treasury Questions back in November 2003: “The growth of the British economy is sustained by consumer spending pinned against record levels of personal debt, which is secured, if at all, against house prices that the Bank of England describes as well above equilibrium level. What action will the Chancellor take on the problem of consumer debt?” Mr Brown did not answer how he would solve the problem, merely replying that: “We have been right about the prospects for growth in the British economy, and the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Cable) has been wrong.” LINK Who in the end turn out to be right about the prospects for grown in the British economy (HINT: It wasn't Crash Gordon). Stephen Roach - senior executive at Morgan Stanley In November 2004, Mr Roach predicted an “economic Armageddon”, in part due to the record US current account, trade and government deficits. His outlook was largely dismissed at the time. Having being proved right, he recently went on to accuse central banks of being “asleep at the switch” in failing to stop the escalating crisis. “The lack of monetary discipline has become a hallmark of unfettered globalization,” he said. LINK Nouriel Roubini In the 1990s, Roubini studied the collapse of emerging economies. He says that he used an intuitive, historical approach backed up by an understanding of theoretical models to analyze these countries and came to the conclusion that a common denominator was the large current account deficits financed by loans from abroad. Roubini theorized that the United States might be the next to suffer, and as early as 2004 began writing about a possible future collapse. LINK Robert Shiller Robert Shiller is a Yale economics professor who predicted both the dotcom and housing bubbles. His latest book is "The Subprime Solution: How Today's Global Financial Crisis Happened, and What to Do about It." LINK [YouTube video] Even Gordon Brown claims to have predicted the crisis: "I called for global financial reform ten years ago" - Prime Minister Gordon Brown during his speech on Britain and the Global economy at the Foreign Press Association claimed today that he had been warning for ten years that the international financial markets needed to be more strongly regulated. Source: Press Association, January 26, 2009 But Gordon, weren't you also an advocate of "light touch" regulation? Aren't you contradicting yourself there? Goldman Sachs Mortgage Fraud Confirms Gordon Brown's Responsibility for the Financial Crisis Wednesday1, once again you pluck a "fact" out of your ass and I come along and demolish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fine line Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Wednesday1, once again you pluck a "fact" out of your ass and I come along and demolish it. Out of context that part could be quite funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 So from your figs, until the worldwide credit crunch Labour had improved the debt situation from what they had inherited under the Cons as they had cut debt down from 42% to 36%. Back in 2002 there were no warning signs coming from across the world or anywhere else. As for pride before a fall, I think being wise after the event is more apt! Britain: Job losses mount and personal debt increases By Mike Ingram 14 November 2001 After much talk of the UK spending its way out of a recession, the government was forced to issue a statement Monday urging the public to think carefully before borrowing money or buying on credit. UK consumers owe more than £700 billion and almost 23,000 homes were repossessed by mortgage companies last year. “Obtaining credit is becoming ever easier for UK consumers, but escaping debt problems is a much harder and more challenging prospect,” said John Vickers, the director general of fair-trading. These will prove to be only the tip of the iceberg, as the economy continues to worsen in the US and internationally. A rise in the UK markets following the announcement of an interest rate cut by the Bank of England was washed away the following day, as the Footsie index of 100 leading stocks fell 33.9 points. While the British government issues warnings about an increase in personal debt, any cut back in consumer spending over the Christmas period will lead to a deeper recession, further job losses and thus more debt in 2002. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 How could I have forgotten Fred Harrison? British Economist Predicts US$45 Trillion Global Wealth Wipe-Out THE GLOBAL wipe-out of wealth will top $45 trillion resulting in depression according to economist Fred Harrison LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM--(Marketwire - Oct. 15, 2008 ) - "The massive contraction in demand caused by this 'wealth effect' will condemn the western economy to a decade-long depression," Harrison tells the Foreign Press Association in London today." Harrison criticised policies for rescuing the European and US banks. "Gordon Brown thinks he's leading the world to the 'promised land,'" declared Harrison. His books, published in 1997 and 2005, spelt out the timetable for the crisis. "Other governments have now copied the British prime minister's bank bail-out plan. But his leadership is a disaster - he is the one person in the world who could have headed off this catastrophe but refused to act." Harrison alerted Brown to the crisis of 2008 when he was appointed Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1997. Brown failed to introduce the reforms that would have ensured economic stability. "Brown blames America for the global crisis. But every country in the world permitted property speculation, which is at the heart of boom/busts. Brown now defends himself by claiming that he tried to get global agreement on a stabilisation plan. But he failed to tell the other governments about the tax reforms that could have prevented the crisis." Harrison predicted the recession of 1992 and the current crisis - in each case, a full decade before they happened. "Tougher regulation of the banks will not prevent the arrested growth of the next 10 years," claims Harrison. He calculated the wealth wipe-out by using conservative assumptions. Fred Harrison's predictions earned him the epithet 'Prophet of Doom' until his forecasts proved correct. He is now described as "the canary in the housing mine...(his) prediction is chilling: Nostradamus...could scarcely have been more accurate" (Spectator Business, October 2nd 2008). Harrison warns: "It will not be business as usual, as entrepreneurs and corporations discover that the West is now losing more of its competitive edge. Political tensions arising from the ascendancy of cash-rich Asian countries will also have serious economic consequences. Strategic planning is needed, but that thinking is not happening." LINK In 1997 Fred Harrison wrote to Tony Blair and his Ministers: “I am your worst nightmare. I know exactly why New Labour will fail”. For ten years Harrison identified for Gordon Brown the policies that could prevent the next boom bust. Brown failed to adopt the reforms. Instead, he fostered the state of denial that led Blair’s spin doctor, Alistair Campbell to write: “Dear Fred, I am a little bemused as to why you believe this country’s economic policy is ‘a shambles’.” Brown and his Chancellor Alistair Darling, through the strategies in their budget on Wednesday, are using the same technique to camouflage the policy failures that will deepen the depression. The Renegade Economist team is releasing the letters that the Prime Minister doesn’t want you to read because they establish his guilt as the architect of the worst recession in Britain since the 1930’s. Read and judge for yourselves. LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vague_Boy Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Ex-Governor George says Bank deliberately fuelled consumer boom The Bank of England deliberately stoked the consumer boom that has led to record house prices and personal debt in order to avert a recession, the former Bank Governor Eddie George admitted yesterday. LINK Governor from 1993 to 2003, 6 years of this on Gordon Brown's watch. "Qui tacet consentire" ("Silence gives consent"). Clearly Crash Gordon approved of this disastrous tactic. Kill or cure? Crash Gordon does both! And this tactic has avoided a recession, if only because we are now in a Depression. Economists Agree: We’re In a Depression Thank you Gordon, you utter, utter, treasonous fool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 LINK Governor from 1993 to 2003, 6 years of this on Gordon Brown's watch. "Qui tacet consentire" ("Silence gives consent"). Clearly Crash Gordon approved of this disastrous tactic. Kill or cure? Crash Gordon does both! And this tactic has avoided a recession, if only because we are now in a Depression. Economists Agree: We’re In a Depression Thank you Gordon, you utter, utter, treasonous fool! I know, let's try and beat everyone into submission with a few suspect links to tenuous websites which contain opinions rather than facts, but always keep in mind that facts, like statistics, can mean anything the manipulator what's them to mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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