Global Debt Storm - Osborne

[MrSmith]

That would be the case if the recession was caused by defaults on personal loans and mortgages within the UK. Please don't try telling me it was!

 

Our recession is caused by people not spending, when people stop spending Tax revenues drop. When tax revenues drop government cut public services or borrow more money. The people stopped spending because they had no money to spend and had huge debts.

[donkey]

Our recession is caused by people not spending, when people stop spending Tax revenues drop. When tax revenues drop government cut public services or borrow more money. The people stopped spending because they had no money to spend and had huge debts.

 

 

So you are trying to say the global recession was caused by the British public! . I'd be interested to know how the curtailment of spending in the UK - which anyway happened after and as a result of the recession - caused economic turmoil across the globe, before UK consumer spending even began to dip?

 

I have to say, Tories and Stalinists are remarkably similar when it comes to the lengths they will go in their utterly shameless attempts to re-write history. Up is down, black is white, and David Cameron together with his Bullingdon Club chums would have averted the recession.

[MrSmith]

So you are trying to say the global recession was caused by the British public! . I'd be interested to know how the curtailment of spending in the UK - which anyway happened after and as a result of the recession - caused economic turmoil across the globe, before UK consumer spending even began to dip?

 

I have to say, Tories and Stalinists are remarkably similar when it comes to the lengths they will go in their utterly shameless attempts to re-write history. Up is down, black is white, and David Cameron together with his Bullingdon Club chums would have averted the recession.

 

No..................

[donkey]

No..................

 

The Original Post is about the way the Tories have gone from claiming Labour caused the UK debt problem through their spending policies, yet now that the policy of massive cuts in public spending is failing to stop the recession, they have come round to the view which all people who are not completely blinkered or ill informed held all along - that the main driving forces of the recession are on a scale beyond the control of single governments.

 

The only other question to answer is whether the tories were any more aware of the impending global financial crisis. If they were, they certainly forgot to mention it!

 

All you have shown so far is that George Osborne warned of runaway personal debts. But if you are conceding that these runaway personal debts were not the cause of the Global recession, then you have done nothing to disprove the point in the OP, namely that the tories grossly distorted the facts about the causes of the recession, and are now doing an about face as it is starting to backfire on them.

[MrSmith]

The Original Post is about the way the Tories have gone from claiming Labour caused the UK debt problem through their spending policies, yet now that the policy of massive cuts in public spending is failing to stop the recession, they have come round to the view which all people who are not completely blinkered or ill informed held all along - that the main driving forces of the recession are on a scale beyond the control of single governments.

 

The only other question to answer is whether the tories were any more aware of the impending global financial crisis. If they were, they certainly forgot to mention it!

 

All you have shown so far is that George Osborne warned of runaway personal debts. But if you are conceding that these runaway personal debts were not the cause of the Global recession, then you have done nothing to disprove the point in the OP, namely that the tories grossly distorted the facts about the causes of the recession, and are now doing an about face as it is starting to backfire on them.

 

The dot com bust 2000 should have sent the world into recession; it didn’t because global economies were stimulated by cheap credit, the lowing of interest rates. In other words the banks lent people money and that money was spent which gave the impression economies were doing well. The banks saved the day, but all they did was start a new bubble. The housing bubble, people borrowed money to buy houses at ever increasing prices, they also released capital from their houses to buy holidays and other stuff. We had an expanding economy driven by debt, without the debt we would have been in recession. Many people saw this as a problem, George Osborn and Vince cable saw it as a problem, Garden Brown didn’t.

If the banking crisis hadn’t happened, we may have continued living on debt a little longer but inevitably the bubble would have burst. One country and one industry cannot be blamed; it was a combination of, people borrowing money, banks lending money but mainly governments allowing it to continue for so long. Each country that is in recession as a consequence of living on credit played their part in the system crashing.

[I1L2T3]

They did distort the facts. We know they did. They know they did. At the very least they were economical with the truth. It took a very weak opposition to allow them to do this.

 

It requires astonishing chutzpah to claim that Britian was going through a uniquely British Labour-induced economic meltdown while the rest of the world was, and still is, battling the global financial crisis.

 

The reasons:

1. Easier to blame Labour rather than external causes for too far, too fast indiscriminate ideologically-driven cuts.

 

2. Not blaming the key external causes of our economic problems, i.e. the banks, took the focus away from organisations that supply 50%+ of Tory party funding.

 

3. Now that Osborne is losing domestic fiscal control he starts to turn the focus onto the banks. More and more Tories are saying this by the day. Suddenly we have a gloomy global climate.

[MrSmith]

They did distort the facts. We know they did. They know they did. At the very least they were economical with the truth. It took a very weak opposition to allow them to do this.

 

It requires astonishing chutzpah to claim that Britian was going through a uniquely British Labour-induced economic meltdown while the rest of the world was, and still is, battling the global financial crisis.

 

The reasons:

1. Easier to blame Labour rather than external causes for too far, too fast indiscriminate ideologically-driven cuts.

 

2. Not blaming the key external causes of our economic problems, i.e. the banks, took the focus away from organisations that supply 50%+ of Tory party funding.

 

3. Now that Osborne is losing domestic fiscal control he starts to turn the focus onto the banks. More and more Tories are saying this by the day. Suddenly we have a gloomy global climate.

 

Who’s claiming that?

[Tony]

They did distort the facts. We know they did. They know they did. At the very least they were economical with the truth. It took a very weak opposition to allow them to do this.

 

It requires astonishing chutzpah to claim that Britian was going through a uniquely British Labour-induced economic meltdown while the rest of the world was, and still is, battling the global financial crisis.

 

The reasons:

1. Easier to blame Labour rather than external causes for too far, too fast indiscriminate ideologically-driven cuts.

 

2. Not blaming the key external causes of our economic problems, i.e. the banks, took the focus away from organisations that supply 50%+ of Tory party funding.

 

3. Now that Osborne is losing domestic fiscal control he starts to turn the focus onto the banks. More and more Tories are saying this by the day. Suddenly we have a gloomy global climate.

 

The rest of the world isn't.

[I1L2T3]

The rest of the world isn't.

 

Don't be daft Tony

[Wildcat]

We had a dot com bubble stimulated by people with no money wanting to get some of the easy money they saw other getting, when that crashed we had a housing bubble stimulated by people with no money wanting to make some of the easy money they saw other making. The bubbles were inflated by low interest rates, greed and the ability of people with no money to borrow it easily.

George Osborn along with many other people saw a problem with this easy credit, he accused Gordon Brown in 2006 of being the pusher who has created Britain’s “debt addiction”. Many people saw it coming but didn’t realise the scale of the problems it would cause. It could have been avoided easily by restricting the easy credit, one way of doing that would have been to increase interest rates. Obviously if Gordon Brown had increased interest rates people would have stopped spending and the economy wouldn’t have looked as rosy.

 

Errm... if I wanted easy credit how exactly is it now my fault that banks start offering it? Are you really saying banks had no ability to withstand the demands of poor people... Wasn't it the banks themselves that have repeatedly lobbied for a reduction of what fractional reserve they are required to support any loan with? The basis for your blame is obviously absurd.

 

As for blaming Gordon Brown for reckless Govt spending, maybe you could explain why the billions of public money spent reducing Corporation Tax from 33% to 22% has not been reversed? or was that good Govt spending? and bad Govt spending is just that part of the Labour Govt.s expenditure that was directed at reducing the increasing inequality and poverty people experienced during the same period?