Commons to debate EU Referendum

[mj.scuba]

MPs are set to debate an EU Referendum before Christmas

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044211/At-We-vote-Europe-MPs-forced-decide-referendum.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

 

http://rt.com/news/uk-referendum-eu-membership-863/

 

This is excellent progress and comes after a petition of 100,000+ signatures was submitted to MPs demanding a referndum. If it's the petition The Express was behind, I'm so glad I signed it. Roll on a referendum.

[andyofborg]

lol there wont be a referendum, there will be a debate but there won't be a vote and there wont be a referendum.

 

we won't get the empire back no matter how much you stomp and scream

[Frank Sidney]

Lets hope we come out of the EU. Then we can ditch the daft Human Rights Act as well....

[andygardener]

lol there wont be a referendum, there will be a debate but there won't be a vote and there wont be a referendum.

 

we won't get the empire back no matter how much you stomp and scream

 

That is certainly what the EU commision would hope, after all if you start asking people whether they want unelected beaurocrats wasting their money and telling them what to do there's every chance that they will say no thanks. Hence they try to avoid ever asking, and when they have to and the people come up with the "wrong" answer, they keep asking till they get the "right" answer.

 

I hope there is a vote and i hope there is a 3 way referendum.

 

1. Continue as we are in the EU

2. Leave the EU

3. Negotiate with the EU to return our relationship with it as a trade block with customers cooperation and repatriate all other powers to the UK.

 

Trying to scare not just British people but all the peoples of Europe into the false premise that either we have an ever expanding undemocratic corrupt unaccountable dictatorship by committee making ever increasing numbers of decisions about their lives, or we have economic distaster, collapse of inter european trade and Germany invading Poland by lunchtime has long since ceased to be credible.

 

In tough economic times we simply can't afford the EU in it's current bloated parasitic form.

[andyofborg]

Lets hope we come out of the EU. Then we can ditch the daft Human Rights Act as well....

 

As has been explained many times, the European Convention on Human Rights and EU are separate entities and so it matters little if we come out of the EU. Though, of course, leaving the EU would close off our major export market which in these poor economic times may not be a clever thing.

 

The HRA simply allows people to seek redress for violations of the ECHR via the UK Courts rather than having to go to the Strasbourg Court. We could, of course, renounce the Treaty but as it was largely written by English lawyers and codifies many of the rights already available under uk laws and traditions it seems pretty pointless.

 

The other thing of course is that the Convention and Court provides an external monitor of the way governments treat their citizens.

 

I admire your trust in this and successive governments not to turn on its people but the last one trampled over people's civil liberties and was only restrained by action under the Convention both here and in Strasbourg.

[mj.scuba]

lol there wont be a referendum, there will be a debate but there won't be a vote and there wont be a referendum.

 

we won't get the empire back no matter how much you stomp and scream

 

Immature and incorrect caricatures don't make a good argument.

 

It might only be a debate for now but the pressure is building.

 

--

[Frank Sidney]

As has been explained many times, the European Convention on Human Rights and EU are separate entities and so it matters little if we come out of the EU. Though, of course, leaving the EU would close off our major export market which in these poor economic times may not be a clever thing.

 

The HRA simply allows people to seek redress for violations of the ECHR via the UK Courts rather than having to go to the Strasbourg Court. We could, of course, renounce the Treaty but as it was largely written by English lawyers and codifies many of the rights already available under uk laws and traditions it seems pretty pointless.

 

The other thing of course is that the Convention and Court provides an external monitor of the way governments treat their citizens.

 

I admire your trust in this and successive governments not to turn on its people but the last one trampled over people's civil liberties and was only restrained by action under the Convention both here and in Strasbourg.

 

I'm no business person but don't understand this angle on why we should stay in. As you said we're in a financial mire. But we've been in the EU for a long time and its done little to protect the economy.

 

I also don't understand why trade would suffer. People still want goods what difference does it matter if we're not in the same club?..

[andygardener]

I also don't understand why trade would suffer. People still want goods what difference does it matter if we're not in the same club?..

 

Trade would not suffer is the simple answer. We would continue to do business with France and Germany and all our other European partners just as we do now. Does the USA do business in Europe, does China, does Brazil, does India? Of course, and of course they are not part of the EU.

 

The trade suffering myth is just that, a bogeyman to try to justify the unjustifiable -expensive bloated eurocrats taking our money to tell us what to do.

[LeMaquis]

I also don't understand why trade would suffer. People still want goods what difference does it matter if we're not in the same club?..

 

Most of our trade is with continental Europe. If we're outside that club then it'll be harder and more expensive to trade with them. They can trade with each other on more favourable terms to themselves than with us. This would also result in foreign investment in this country (from the EU, USA, Japan, China, India, etc) being pulled and moved to other EU states. Why would foreign multinationals invest here if we're outside the EU, when they can set up in France, Germany, etc.

 

If this campiagn was from the Express I hope they have more evidence about the EU than they do of Diana being murdered, which they're convinced of too.

 

EC commissioners are appointed by member states, by the way. So even if they're not elected themselves they're appointed by people who are. That's deliberate so that they're not pandering to their own national interests, but can see things from a larger European perspective.

[andyofborg]

1. Continue as we are in the EU

2. Leave the EU

3. Negotiate with the EU to return our relationship with it as a trade block with customers cooperation and repatriate all other powers to the UK.

 

there is nothing we produce here which can't be produced elsewhere in the EU, so from an EU point of view getting rid of the whining british and inflating the weaker economies by encouraging them to produce the stuff we currently export might not sound too bad an option to them.

 

of course, we also import lots from the EU and in time we could produce most of that too but until then we dependent on those imports.

 

we would be looking at a trade war we couldn't win.

 

the other thing of course, is that the EU has recently negotiated some sort of deal with Korea and will do so with other countries. we would be excluding ourselves from those deals. the uk on it's own wouldn't be big enough to negotiate any sort of trade deal which would be beneficial to us.