Chris_Sleeps Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Why does the right-wing "we're skint! Who's going to pay for this?" argument evaporate when people discuss the mass sterilisation of whole sections of society? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RitchieRitch Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 But thats the thing. People with disabilities or unable to work are being lumped with the label of 'scrounger' and being regarded as no good. Thats what gets my blood boiling. I'd love to work! But I can't. Do you think I like being in pain constantly and not being able to contribute? [And yes, I did have a job before my condition deteriorated.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VideoPro Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 ...And is there any reason why the sterilisation operation can't be painless and done without leaving any scars? Forced sterilization shouldn't be done under any circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 That's the thing, though Halibut. Everyone's life should be considered valuable, and of worth. I have mentioned my sister's youngest lad, often, on here as an example of this. He is severely impaired due to brain damage after brain surgery - but that does not matter to us- he is utterly loved, and gives so much love, and brings such joy to our lives by his very existence. Certain quarters have tried to describe him as a "Life unworthy of life". (Grrr!) Yes of course, if we had the choice, we'd naturally prefer that he hadn't got his impairments, but we would not wish him away for all the world. We love him to bits, and wouldn't be without him. Although most reasonable people would accept that, there are those who draw a distinction between those like your nephew - who can be perceived as blameless - and those who have 'brought it on themselves'. Alcoholics, drug addicts and so on (some would extend this list to the mentally ill sadly). The sad truth is, of course that such fates can befall anyone - even those who protest that it could never happen to them. And then there are those who might choose not to work because they can afford not, or those with alternative lifestyles - and those who are simply a bit hopeless and feckless and lazy. I acknowledge that such people exist. I know some. Even the hopeless and feckless and lazy are human beings too, worthy of dignity and having their own value. Who are we to treat them like dirt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balpin Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Those who have no hope of a job etc etc. I think those that have a history of sponging, those that come from a family of non workers and those who just would be better of not having children. It would save this country a lot of money. I hope you are not serious here. We are all gods children, and are responsible for each other. The basic tenet of humanity is love of your fellow man. Without this basic respect, for others and ourselves, we descend to lower than animals. I would advise that you think before you speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickiethecat Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Even the hopeless and feckless and lazy are human beings too, worthy of dignity and having their own value. Who are we to treat them like dirt? That's a hopelessly idealistic view. If the hopeless, feckless and lazy treat the rest of society with contempt, why shouldn't we treat them like dirt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 So what's your solution to stop our society being overrun with lowlife chavs, asylum seekers and worthless scroungers who want nothing more from life than to steal, cheat and claim benefits for doing nothing? Perhaps if you'd climb down from your ivory tower in Dore or Totley or wherever you live, you might realise that on our sink estates society's going down the pan and something needs to be done about it. And is there any reason why the sterilisation operation can't be painless and done without leaving any scars? Behave, I don't live anywhere like that and I've seen more than enough poverty and social deprivation to last me a lifetime thankyou very much. The solution to all of those problems you mention lies in treating people with decency and respect, giving them real opportunities to better themselves and real support to those who can't manage life without it. It lies in education and in pouring high quality teaching and high quality learning opportunities. Above all you can't get rid of the underclass by treating them like filth - the only way to do it by raising them up, giving them a reason and a hope to try and improve their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 But thats the thing. People with disabilities or unable to work are being lumped with the label of 'scrounger' and being regarded as no good. Thats what gets my blood boiling. And it has to be said, that's exactly what you're doing when you describe chavs and scroungers and asylum seekers in such derogatory terms. Even though they might not even know it themselves many of those that you describe as 'worthless scroungers' would love to be working and making a real contribution to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickiethecat Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Behave, I don't live anywhere like that and I've seen more than enough poverty and social deprivation to last me a lifetime thankyou very much. The solution to all of those problems you mention lies in treating people with decency and respect, giving them real opportunities to better themselves and real support to those who can't manage life without it. It lies in education and in pouring high quality teaching and high quality learning opportunities. Above all you can't get rid of the underclass by treating them like filth - the only way to do it by raising them up, giving them a reason and a hope to try and improve their lives. Worthy words but again hopelessly ideological. You can give lowlife scroungers all the education, support and opportunities you like but the majority of them would simply refuse all this help because staying at home churning out kid after kid to get more and more benefits is a much easier life than working for a living. At some point you have to say enough is enough and use force. If people really find sterilisation so repugnant, perhaps financial penalties would be a better solution. Say only pay benefits for the first child and if they have more than two kids they actually get their benefits reduced instead of being given more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrapeApe Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 That's a hopelessly idealistic view. If the hopeless, feckless and lazy treat the rest of society with contempt, why shouldn't we treat them like dirt? I wouldn't because I am not a savage uncivilised animal. Where do you stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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