Vague_Boy Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 as the UK pulled out This has been Wednesday1's story all along. "But we were pulling out of the recession until you lot stupidly voted Crash Gordon and Captain Darling out of office." It's a useful stance since, since as actual real-world events went differently, he can claim what he likes and no one who doesn't have access to some kind of cross-dimensional alternate reality transportation device can prove him wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 So you want to borrow more money to solve the problem that was cause by debt. It would stimulate the economy and prevent recession for now but it would be just another short term fix. Then what? Sooner or later the debt as to be paid back and more of our taxes would be used to pay interest. You missed the point about it being spent on infrastructure projects that will provide lasting benefit and create a better framework for sustainable growth. The more we grow the less we have to borrow and the more surplus is generated for paying down debt and for future investment. The finances of a nation are very different to the finances of a household - it's a very incorrect to suggest otherwise and also disingenuous. You also missed the point about where the borrowing comes from - a transfer of savings from banks (which are not doing the job of lending them out to private businesses) into NS&I. This allows the government to borrow cheaply from UK citizens for infrastructure projects at fixed rates without having to go onto the international markets. Quite simply we aren't going to get out of this if we don't grow. So what are your ideas then? How are we going to achieve growth before a self-sustaining spiral downwards into depression kicks off? The private sector isn't stepping up so what are we going to do? We can't just wait for it. I'd like to know what the people who are against further stimulus are proposing instead. So come on, what do we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 This has been Wednesday1's story all along. "But we were pulling out of the recession until you lot stupidly voted Crash Gordon and Captain Darling out of office." It's a useful stance since, since as actual real-world events went differently, he can claim what he likes and no one who doesn't have access to some kind of cross-dimensional alternate reality transportation device can prove him wrong. We were achieving quite strong growth until the coalition policies kicked in. Now we're in a situation where we're not growing and spending is increasing. The economic data is very clear. It's clearly gone very wrong. But they were warned again and again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 The good news is, unlike Spain, Italy, Ireland and Portugal, our credit rating is no longer in jeopardy, due solely to the governments willingness to address the fiscal problems the country faces. I would not be smug about that. Tackling the fiscal problems too enthusiastically can be just as damaging as letting the debt grow. I'll be surprised if we maintain the AAA rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 You missed the point about it being spent on infrastructure projects that will provide lasting benefit and create a better framework for sustainable growth. The more we grow the less we have to borrow and the more surplus is generated for paying down debt and for future investment. The finances of a nation are very different to the finances of a household - it's a very incorrect to suggest otherwise and also disingenuous. You also missed the point about where the borrowing comes from - a transfer of savings from banks (which are not doing the job of lending them out to private businesses) into NS&I. This allows the government to borrow cheaply from UK citizens for infrastructure projects at fixed rates without having to go onto the international markets. Quite simply we aren't going to get out of this if we don't grow. So what are your ideas then? How are we going to achieve growth before a self-sustaining spiral downwards into depression kicks off? The private sector isn't stepping up so what are we going to do? We can't just wait for it. I'd like to know what the people who are against further stimulus are proposing instead. So come on, what do we do? We're not, the damage is done, we can hold off the inevitable for while but we have no choice but to lower our standard of living. Perpetual growth on a planet with limited resources isn't possible, everything we consume is going to get more and more expensive as the population expands. Much of the growth over the past decade has been debt induced growth, so the only way to continue expanding the economy is to continue expanding the debt and that can’t go on forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 We're not, the damage is done, we can hold off the inevitable for while but we have no choice but to lower our standard of living. Perpetual growth on a planet with limited resources isn't possible, everything we consume is going to get more and more expensive as the population expands. Much of the growth over the past decade has been debt induced growth, so the only way to continue expanding the economy is to continue expanding the debt and that can’t go on forever. Oh no, not the eco argument. From a Tory. Desperate stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Oh no, not the eco argument. From a Tory. Desperate stuff. How can we achieve perpetual growth and population expansion on a planet of limited resources? Sooner or later expansion becomes impossible and the people of that time will pay the price for our greed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 How can we achieve perpetual growth and population expansion on a planet of limited resources? Sooner or later expansion becomes impossible and the people of that time will pay the price for our greed. You're not reading my posts properly. I clearly mention sustainable growth. You can't be saying that we shouldn't be trying to grow our economy can you? I think most Tories would be pretty upset if they thought Osborne was going down that track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I would not be smug about that. Tackling the fiscal problems too enthusiastically can be just as damaging as letting the debt grow. I'll be surprised if we maintain the AAA rating. You seem to be suffering the same old disease many of the anti-tory lot suffer; Predicting the future and presenting it as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big time Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I would not be smug about that. Tackling the fiscal problems too enthusiastically can be just as damaging as letting the debt grow. I'll be surprised if we maintain the AAA rating. We were definitely going to lose that AAA credit rating had Labour remained in power and did the things they intended to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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