Mr Bojangles Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 I agree. But a genuine self made man is a very rare thing. Usually, people get rich by using resources effectively. A lot of those resources are paid for out of general taxation. What resources do they get free or subsidised that the taxpayer has provided? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 What resources do they get free or subsidised that the taxpayer has provided? Healthy, well-educated workers (who pay for their own health care by paying tax) Legal system Subsidised transport infrastructure Internal & external security etc.... The absence of any of which might make business more difficult. Who pays for all this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bojangles Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Healthy, well-educated workers (who pay for their own health care by paying tax) Legal system Subsidised transport infrastructure Internal & external security etc.... The absence of any of which might make business more difficult. Who pays for all this? From what you say here, all business owes its success to the taxpayer? I think you forget that those taxes come, in the first place, from wages paid by those very businesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 From what you say here, all business owes its success to the taxpayer? I think you forget that those taxes come, in the first place, from wages paid by those very businesses. Nope, I'm not saying that at all. The taxpayer contributes significantly to things that make the business environment good to do business in. Some businesses and individuals have the drive and ambition to take advantage of that. Which is good. I haven't forgotten where taxes come from. The fact that the businesses benefit from from a favourable, partly taxpayer-funded business environment should be a good incentive for them to meet their tax liabilities. But they don't always do this. I can understand why they seek out avoidance mechanisms - basically because they can, to increase margin, to meet shareholder expectations etc... But ultimately it's like expecting the car to keep running without servicing it or changing the oil - short-term gains for long-term pains. Businesses need to contribute to their operating environment if they want to do business in that environment long-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mecky Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Everyone knows VAT Man and The Boy Blunder are doing it wrong, some people just don't like to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Partially. Because he still needs roads, rail, healthy and educated workers etc. Perhaps he could pay for all of those out of his remortgage too. Is it somehow important that they've made money in this environment? We aren't comparing them to the poor in mozambique are we? It's the lowly paid in the same environment who always seem to think that the ones who've achieved something should pay more in tax than they already do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 They make their wealth within a modern economy with an infrastructure and legal framework that facilitates it. Let them try and do it in Mozambique or some other place where there isn't a sufficient taxation base, infrastructure, legal framework or consumer demand to make that possible. Let’s take all business owners out of the equation and we are left with no one having the ability to work or pay tax. Without business owners no one can pay tax and there would be no roads no schools, no NHS. The richest people in the country support the poorest and give them the opportunity to become successful. There are countries with rich people paying no tax, they still employ people but the poor people will never have an opportunity to become rich. There are no countries that have a good education system, NHS, police force and all the other public services we enjoy, which don’t have rich tax payers at the top paying for these things. But there are countries with rich people at the top not paying tax that don’t have all these things. So it is possible to have rich people without a public sector but it isn’t possible to have a public sector without wealth generating rich people paying for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Is it somehow important that they've made money in this environment? We aren't comparing them to the poor in mozambique are we? It's the lowly paid in the same environment who always seem to think that the ones who've achieved something should pay more in tax than they already do. In any progressive tax regime it is pretty much a given that high earners have more tax liabilities than lower earners. It's just how it works. The expectations of the lower earners are entirely reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 We already operate a progressive tax regime, so any demand that higher earners pay more is completely unreasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 We already operate a progressive tax regime, so any demand that higher earners pay more is completely unreasonable. That is just daft. It is perfectly reasonable, it may be the reasons are insufficient (I don't believe they are) but to rule out any discussion on what extent a tax system should be progressive is dogmatic extremism. Besides according to research the overall tax regime is regressive with the highest earners (top 10%) paying 35% and the lowest earners (bottom 10%) paying 39% of their incomes on tax. http://www.church-poverty.org.uk/closethegap/whatarewecallingfor/fairtaxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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