Stan Tamudo Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I think the OP has a romantic vision of happy, rosy cheeked Brits tilling the soil and bailing hay under a lazy English sun, then sitting down to a Ploughmans, washed down with real ale or weak lemonade The OP should change his username to Pop Larkin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 They already have that chance, access to free education and no one is preventing them applying for jobs that you believe immigrants are preventing them from having. If you believe they have qualities that foreign labour doesn't then employers should have no difficulty in employing them. That’s part of the problem in many cases our young are over qualified for the low paid jobs and the employer knows they will move on when a better offer come along. Someone with a degree isn’t going to get a job as a pot washer. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad.Malky Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I think the OP has a romantic vision of happy, rosy cheeked Brits tilling the soil and bailing hay under a lazy English sun, then sitting down to a Ploughmans, washed down with real ale or weak lemonade They want “proper” apprenticeships but they don’t say what will happen to all these qualified tradesmen when the companies let them go to set on new apprentices because there are no “proper” jobs for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 That’s part of the problem in many cases our young are over qualified for the low paid jobs and the employer knows they will move on when a better offer come along. Someone with a degree isn’t going to get a job as a pot washer. . You may well be right, but with no disrespect to pot washers it's always likely to be an occupation that attracts poorly educated people. Someone with a 'proper apprenticeship' would be unlikely to find it an attractive long term employment prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The OP should change his username to Pop Larkin. :hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 They want “proper” apprenticeships but they don’t say what will happen to all these qualified tradesmen when the companies let them go to set on new apprentices because there are no “proper” jobs for them Indeed, I don't think the OP has thought this through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rupert_Baehr Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Why not shut down the FE colleges and many of the universitys? In their place, pay companies to give actual on the job training to our youth, giving them the skills that are actually needed to make them employable. Then stop all foregn labour coming into the country and taking the jobs. Sounds good ... but if the UK re-patriates all the foreigners and the rest of the world repatriates the Brits, where are you going to put them all? - It wirks both ways. There a re indeed foreigners working in the UK and there are Brits - roughly 12 Milllion of them (with their families) working overseas. You send the foreigners home and in exchange, you get 12 Million Brits (and their families.) Can you house them? Can you find jobs for them? Easy answer, the army of graduates who leave university clearly have the intelligence to study at that level and so these people would recieve specialist training and the skills needed to become a doctor, and as for the nurses? easy, just employ the newly qualified nurses that leave uni every year that cannot get jobs now. Its time we put the british youth first. That would help, I, suppose. It doesn't cost much (not a great burden on the NHS) to treat dead people and if you use 'highly qualified' British graduates (those with degrees in underwater basket-weaving, Alpine flower arranging and Meeja studies) as Doctors, the mortality rate may well go up. The UK has lots of unemployed graduates with degrees. MNay of them are unemployable. OK, so we could use those people who have lots of degrees as doctors. I've got 3. (Freda Grease ... but I can't sing,:hihi:) Perhaps I should be a consultant surgeon? I can't carve a joint of beef, but I'm well-educated - Would you like me to remove your appendix? (I haven't a bloody clue where it might be.) The UK does need medically-qualified (MbCHb) graduates and it needs qualified nurses, but you can't say that somebody with a degree in flower arranging would make an adequate doctor or nurse ... Well, you can say it - but it's a load of crap. The UK is short of doctors, nurses, pharmacologixts, engineers, scientists, mathemeticians and a host of other 'hard' professionalisms. Meeja studies graduates are not viable replacements. Perhaps the UK should move back towards the 60's, when people went to university to study subjects which would get them a job? I've taught in both FE and HE and although there are many accomplished students, the number of 'timewasters' (unqualified and incompetent bums on seats) increased steadily in my time - and I stopped teaching 8 years ago. I doubt it's improved. Shouldn't university places be reserved for those who are likely to benefit from them? With access to land for industry I could build a factory and provide a hell of a lot of employment, employment taking into account both production and the benefit-tax system. But the workers would need access to land for housing! Bugger me, Chem1st! - A couple of months ago you were telling us how you could build houses for 10 thousand quid! Now you're building factories? Tell us about how you solved the housing shortage. 16, 24 or 30 hour shifts for mothers, full time work with overtime for men, casual work for student/carers/retired. Workers, consumers and society as a whole would be better off. Ain't going to happen though, not in this country. Think I'll bail out and emigrate, F the UK. I'm widening my emigration options, when my family have gone, I'll have little reason to stay here. Go for it! I did. I moved overseas and got a job. Stayed overseas and retired. Where are you going? Will you stop claiming bnefits when you go? Poor, uneducated Brits with no guarantee of a minimum wage or employment rights. Those people would no longer work under those conditions if we went back to that regime. Do you know how long immigrants have been working in the NHS in these low level jobs? You need to do a little more research into your proposals and the history of why there are so many immigrants working in the NHS and why Enoch Powell of all people encouraged migration from the Commonwealth to support the NHS. See my first response. But immigrants don't just work in the NHS in low-level jobs, they also work in very senior positions - and they do so because they are very highly qualified. The UK has to rely on immigrant healhworkers (Not just in lower level jobs, but also in more senior positions) because the UK does not produce an adequate stream of medically-qualified graduates (doctors and nurses) to fill the vacancies. For far too long, governments have focussed in 'quantity' rather than 'quality'. Too few students study the 'hard' subjects and too many do 'degrees' which are unlikely to get them a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 But immigrants don't just work in the NHS in low-level jobs, they also work in very senior positions - and they do so because they are very highly qualified. The UK has to rely on immigrant healhworkers (Not just in lower level jobs, but also in more senior positions) because the UK does not produce an adequate stream of medically-qualified graduates (doctors and nurses) to fill the vacancies. For far too long, governments have focussed in 'quantity' rather than 'quality'. Too few students study the 'hard' subjects and too many do 'degrees' which are unlikely to get them a job. Indeed Rupert, the last time I looked at this I think 30% of doctors in the UK are not British, or are the children of immigrants, but I was responding to the OP's point about hospital porters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyfriday Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Sounds good ... but if the UK re-patriates all the foreigners and the rest of the world repatriates the Brits, where are you going to put them all? - It wirks both ways. There a re indeed foreigners working in the UK and there are Brits - roughly 12 Milllion of them (with their families) working overseas. You send the foreigners home and in exchange, you get 12 Million Brits (and their families.) Can you house them? Can you find jobs for them? You better get ready to come home to a UK with love_rat as Prime Minister, don't worry there's plenty of cotton pickin to be done in those fields Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandad.Malky Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 And this years award for the longest post goes to Rupert_Baehr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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