epiphany Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 from the coverage i have seen of the occupy wall street movement folks were protesting anti-corporatism not anti capitalism. What's interesting is that you'll find capitalist libertarians and so-called "lefties" agreeing that corporatism is the problem. So, actually, there are pro-capitalists at these supposed anti-capitalist protests! It all becomes clear when you realise they've never truly had a free market capitalist system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickiethecat Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 from the coverage i have seen of the occupy wall street movement folks were protesting anti-corporatism not anti capitalism. . From what I've seen, I don't think the protestors know what they're protesting about, they just fancy a bit of public disorder and a ruck with the police. Whether it's anti-war, saving the whale, gay rights, anti capitalism or whatever, it's always the same bunch of scruffy, unwashed lefties. When they can come up with an alternative to capitalism, they might be worht listening to but so far they just seem like a bunch of spoilt kids whining "Waah! It's not fair!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I think the point being made by those who you consider dim witted is that the protesters' demands cannot be met under the current system. The flow of capital is one directional - the creditors hold all the power. Even if goverments wanted to sort out the problem they do not have the power - the markets wouldn't allow it. In a system where the financial institutions control the money supply and where they make their profits from charging interest it is inevitable that they will end up with more, leaving less and less for everyone else. In the past we have relied on credit to maintain and try to improve our lot but now that route is blocked off. Investors with plenty of spare capital are wary of lending more because of uncertainty about the returns they could expect. And seeing as just about every developed nation has it's own debt problem then something's got to give. I'm sure many of the protesters would react in horror at being called communists but that doesn't detract from the assumption that they are anti capitalist. Capitalism cannot satisfy their demands and governments are powerless to even appease them at the moment. Maybe it wont topple the capitalist sytem this time. Maybe someone will come along with a magic wand and make everything ok again. Or maybe the neo cons will triumph and leave us facing a decade of depression and even more wars - either way it wont be long before we are all in the mire again. More and more people are now realising this and that is why the overthrow of global capitalism is now seen by many (and the numbers are growing) as an acheivable end. The markets need to be regulated. Governments have the power to do it. Overthrowing capitalism wont happen anyway and even if it were ever to happen what's to replace it? Please dont tell me "Socialism." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 From what I've seen, I don't think the protestors know what they're protesting about, they just fancy a bit of public disorder and a ruck with the police. Whether it's anti-war, saving the whale, gay rights, anti capitalism or whatever, it's always the same bunch of scruffy, unwashed lefties. When they can come up with an alternative to capitalism, they might be worht listening to but so far they just seem like a bunch of spoilt kids whining "Waah! It's not fair!" Most of them don't want an alternative to capitalism. They want an alternative to the perverse strain of state-sponsored corporatism that's dominated the US system for the best part of a century. Even the ultra pro-capitalist, "righty" Tea Party movement shares the desire of the Wall Street protesters to change the status-quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 [/b] The markets need to be regulated. Governments have the power to do it. Overthrowing capitalism wont happen anyway and even if it were ever to happen what's to replace it? Please dont tell me "Socialism." You don't need to "overthrow capitalism", and believe it or not you can take elements from a broad spectrum of ideologies and economic theories and incorporate them into a new system. The battle here is not "capitalism vs socialism". It's more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabba25 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 [/b] The markets need to be regulated. Governments have the power to do it. Overthrowing capitalism wont happen anyway and even if it were ever to happen what's to replace it? Please dont tell me "Socialism." I'm pretty sure our government is made up almost entirely of former bankers and lawyers. Which is why we will never see any real change whilst we put up with one flawed manifesto after another. British politics is in the dark ages. Even if a few politicians did have OUR best interests at heart, any changes would still have to get past the Lords and peers. For me capitalism is only the jugular of OUR corrupt WORLD. A resource based economy, where science is not funded on the basis of returning a profit seems a pretty good place to start. You can give it any title that pleases you if you need label to hang on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I shop as ethically as I can afford to. Most employers make you sign a contract stating you will be paid via BACS at least my last one did. They even try to make people receiving benefits open bank accounts too. It appears that having principals also comes with a price tag. Maybe they'll start selling those in tesco's too. There are ethical banks that operate like any other high street bank, allowing you to receive BACS and use ATM's and all that. The difference is how they invest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studentbob Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 [/b] The markets need to be regulated. Governments have the power to do it. Overthrowing capitalism wont happen anyway and even if it were ever to happen what's to replace it? Please dont tell me "Socialism." The PM and the Environment Secretary have both said today that they cannot control commodity prices which are rising to satisfy investors needs for profit. As far as I can see the only regulation that could practically be imposed is a transaction tax - is this what you are proposing or is there something else that can be done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fine line Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 psml. I do have my own tent, but now I want yours - does that make me a capitalist? lol Shouldn't that be pmsl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabba25 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 @ fine line. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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