World War 1: If Only ..

[HeadingNorth]

I find these sort of thought-experiment debates interesting, even though I agree with Phanerothyme that it's utterly, ridiculously hopeless to try and reach any sort of "truth" about what outcomes would have been. There are far too many variables interacting with each other in ways we don't begin to understand.

 

 

That said ... if the British Empire had stayed out of the conflict in 1914, Germany might well have defeated the French, as was their objective, within two months, and been able to concentrate on the Eastern Front. Their only problem with France, ostensibly, was that they could not risk fighting on two fronts at once, and had to persuade France - at artillery point - not to attack Germany while the war with Russia went on.

 

But then, given the historical conflicts between Germany and France which had, in fact, been going on since before either country existed (!), would Germany have really been happy with just a treaty that said "France will not attack Germany" .... and would the French have honoured it?

[L00b]

But then, given the historical conflicts between Germany and France which had, in fact, been going on since before either country existed (!), would Germany have really been happy with just a treaty that said "France will not attack Germany" .... and would the French have honoured it?

No more than Hitler honoured his agreement with Stalin (e.g.), if national interests warranted it at the material time. It's all about strategic opportunity, as usual and as ever.

[alchresearch]

I think getting them out of the way has paved the way for a united Europe where there is now a cause for celebration of the amity which has existed in Europe which makes future conflicts not even the remotest of possibilities.

[JFKvsNixon]

If Britain would've stayed out of World War 1, we could've avoided the huge problems that passed in Europe. We wouldn't've weakened ourselves and our empire, and we'd've come nowhere near the crippling effects of WW2.

 

France would've been defeated within a year or so. They'd've lost Alsace-Lorraine again and been grumpy about it.

 

Germany would never've been crippled, and Hitler would never've come to power.

 

Russia would've lost some of the Baltic regions to Austria, but their revolution would never've come to pass. Lenin would be forgotten by history as 'a loon'.

 

America would never have taken their first steps into European action, and maybe their society would be different today. Certainly without WW2 they could've never gained as much strength.

 

So, as an historical "if"; if we would never of had that war then we would all be happier today.

 

Britain has constantly worked hard for centuries to stop Europe being dominated by one power, historically it's been perceived to be against our interest. So a hundred or so years after we go to war with the Prussians against the French, we go to war with the French against the Prussians successors.

 

The question therefore is, in the long run would have the UK been better with a German dominated Europe, with designs on an overseas empire that would have eventually brought it in confrontation with the Empire?

 

I do take your point that all the problems of the 20th Century seem to grow from the mess of the First World War.

[Phanerothyme]

It is silly to entertain thoughts of what if's. What happened was destined to happen therefore it did nothing can change that.

Bleurgh - destiny is a more laughable concept than 'counterfactual history'.

 

Just.

[Phanerothyme]

And before that, it was German.

Then again, before that, it was French.

But then, before that still, it was German.

Etc.

 

You can go back a good millenia that way, if not longer

 

But if you're talking about German as belonging to Germany the nation-state, then the late 19th century is your limit.

[L00b]

But if you're talking about German as belonging to Germany the nation-state, then the late 19th century is your limit.

I'm not (literally speaking, as it would be fairly pointless, considering the region's history as shown by the linked chronology: nation states have come and gone over the ages, but the region has remained an apple of discord throughout and all the same )

 

Such has been the fate of geographical areas immediately adjacent natural borders (being the Rhine, in this case), for centuries and more.

[Phanerothyme]

It can't be because of the wine, it's disgusting.

[Hemibr]

Even if the course of events had not involved Britain and the occupants had been left alone on their green and pleasant land..................How many occupants would there be on the island today and could they be fed and housed ?

 

I.E the millions of war dead would now be in to third forth or fifth generation offspring.

 

Taking an average of 3 children per generation then each of the war dead would now be parent grandparent or great grandparent to 81 extra kids or thereabouts.

[L00b]

It can't be because of the wine, it's disgusting.

You've obviously drank the wrong stuff. Or not eaten the right stuff with it.

 

Try a Gewurtzraminer, Sylvaner or Pinot Gris, with a Flammekueche.

 

Generally speaking, you'll eat and drink at least as well (but usually much better) in Alsace as anywhere else in France