flamingjimmy Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Back to the topic. I still maintain a religious society is a better environment for women than non religious countries, especially 'book' religions.?!? How can you possibly argue that? Women have it sooo much better in secular societies. Equal opportunities, a culture of feminism, equal rights, extremely strong social taboos against spousal abuse. Liberalism has done more to further the cause of women than any other ideology. The three 'book' religions all lay down rules as to when sex is allowed and those rules prevent women from being sexually exploited as well as restricting the spread of STDs.?!?!? What a load of nonsense. In your own country for example HIV is spreading at an alarming rate. And prostitution is extremely prevalent, not only that, but child prostitution. The international charity UNICEF estimates that 30% of Indonesias prostitutes are under 18. That's hardly protecting the women is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johncocker Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 If you look at the times, when Islam was introduced, women were chattels, and the property of their fathers, then their husbands, and then their sons. Women had few rights. The Jew prayed "I thank thee, LORD that thou didst not make me a woman!" Islam did not consider woman "Jezebel", or responsible for the "Fall". Each Human is judged on their own actions. The rights of woman to vote, be educated, to own property, etc, was brought in more through Islam. wrong! women had a much higher status in arabia before islam. there are accounts of women fighting in battles,riding across the desert,visting men alone, and taking part in public debates. what about Khadija ,,mohammeds first wife .she was a heiress,and business woman,and she proposed to him. women took a great part in the opposition to mohammed, one of his formost opponents was hind,the wife of abu sofian, the leader of the meccans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upinwath Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 ?!? How can you possibly argue that? Women have it sooo much better in secular societies. Equal opportunities, a culture of feminism, equal rights, extremely strong social taboos against spousal abuse. Liberalism has done more to further the cause of women than any other ideology. So you're suggesting there's no abuse in the UK because women are liberated? Get real mate. What a load of nonsense. In your own country for example HIV is spreading at an alarming rate. And prostitution is extremely prevalent, not only that, but child prostitution. The international charity UNICEF estimates that 30% of Indonesias prostitutes are under 18. That's hardly protecting the women is it? I did say there was a problem in Indonesia. It's mostly within the prostitutes and drug users but with a further problem in the homosexual community. Wait a moment - Aren't they the groups least likely to be religious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 wrong! women had a much higher status in arabia before islam. there are accounts of women fighting in battles,riding across the desert,visting men alone, and taking part in public debates. what about Khadija ,,mohammeds first wife .she was a heiress,and business woman,and she proposed to him. women took a great part in the opposition to mohammed, one of his formost opponents was hind,the wife of abu sofian, the leader of the meccans. Most of the things you've listed would get them stoned or thrashed today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Originally Posted by Plain Talker If you look at the times, when Islam was introduced, women were chattels, and the property of their fathers, then their husbands, and then their sons. Women had few rights. The Jew prayed "I thank thee, LORD that thou didst not make me a woman!" Islam did not consider woman "Jezebel", or responsible for the "Fall". Each Human is judged on their own actions. The rights of woman to vote, be educated, to own property, etc, was brought in more through Islam. I'm still waiting for an answer regarding what are 'Right Hand Possessions' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Originally Posted by upinwath Back to the topic. I still maintain a religious society is a better environment for women than non religious countries, especially 'book' religions. Get back on topic and name religions where a female can be head of those religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upinwath Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Get back on topic and name religions where a female can be head of those religions. Show me where I claimed full equality was normal in any religion. I didn't make any such claim; simply that women are better off in a religious structure for the reasons suggested. Women have far greater security if they and their husbands follow rules laid down in the three books. That means kids have a stable family and that's a must for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingjimmy Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 So you're suggesting there's no abuse in the UK because women are liberated?No, funnily enough. If I was suggesting that I would have said it. In future please can you argue against what I've actually said instead of making things up which I have not. What I said was that women have it sooo much better in the secular western world, which is a statement I'm completely willing to stand behind, because it is so obviously true. I did say there was a problem in Indonesia Grudgingly yes, you did acknowledge that. However you couldn't help but qualify it by claiming that the drug and prostitution problems in Indonesia are "tiny by western standards" which is completely ridiculous. Does that UNICEF stat not shock you even a little bit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Show me where I claimed full equality was normal in any religion. I didn't make any such claim; simply that women are better off in a religious structure for the reasons suggested. Women have far greater security if they and their husbands follow rules laid down in the three books. That means kids have a stable family and that's a must for them. A simple answer to the question for once would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Originally Posted by flamingjimmy ?!? How can you possibly argue that? Women have it sooo much better in secular societies. Equal opportunities, a culture of feminism, equal rights, extremely strong social taboos against spousal abuse. Liberalism has done more to further the cause of women than any other ideology. So you're suggesting there's no abuse in the UK because women are liberated? Get real mate. Wy can you not respond with a straight answer instead of deliberately misconstruing what is posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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