What has religion done for women.

[Plain Talker]

So the books aren't being adhered to in many countries that say Islam is their main religion?

 

How can you have cultural and Quranic? Surely it should all be Quranic?

 

Thanks for the input Plain. The bit about child termination is interesting. What would happen in cases like rape?

 

I don't know about that <bold> scenario, thankfully.

 

It is a case of being "in extremis", I think, for termination to be allowed.

 

It's not just for contraception, or that "the child is inconvenient".

 

Life is to be cherished above all, hence the rulings on Halal and Haram (permissible and not permissible) food:- if there is only Haram available, then the Muslim is permitted to eat haram, if his life is endangered... (not just because he fancies a bacon and egg butty!)

 

But, yes, as I have said in many posts, people such as the Wahhabists, and the Taliban, who deny women's rights, in places like Saudi and Afghanistan, ARE going against their own scriptures.

 

In Islam, I can tell you for a fact, it says nothing, Qur'anically, or in the hadiths, about a young woman being acid-attacked for going to school/ learning to read. It actually says that men and women, both, should achieve education to the standard they are capable of. (be it Grade School or University)

 

Yes, of course, it should be "Quranic" Islam, and not cultural. But we frequently find Christians not following the tenets of Christianity, Jews not being "Frohm" (observant), (Not picking, specifically, on any one faith, BTW)

 

It does say in the scriptures, that women should be treasured and respected. Acid attacks are neither treasuring nor respecting women, are they?

[Plain Talker]

That's rather a moot point. As you say, this was right at the dawn of Islam, the conditions into which it was introduced, there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Islam is what inspired those societies to improve the lot of women.

 

If you look at the times, when Islam was introduced, women were chattels, and the property of their fathers, then their husbands, and then their sons.

 

Women had few rights. The Jew prayed "I thank thee, LORD that thou didst not make me a woman!"

 

Islam did not consider woman "Jezebel", or responsible for the "Fall". Each Human is judged on their own actions.

 

The rights of woman to vote, be educated, to own property, etc, was brought in more through Islam.

[Tony Erikson]

 

It does say in the scriptures, that women should be treasured and respected. Acid attacks are neither treasuring nor respecting women, are they?

 

I agree Plain. Should it have to say it in the scriptures though. It seems alien to me to be told you must treasure and respect women, daughters, wives and mothers.

 

Thanks for answering by the way. I don't want you to think this is some cunning plan to slag off Islam. I am genuinely interested in why as you say, the books say respect yet the real world teachings seemingly don't.

[quisquose]

It's removed that annoying inconvenience of having to decide what to wear today.

 

http://veesblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/burqa-women-lots-of1.jpg?w=300&h=200

[quisquose]

It can remove that annoying feeling of boredom when doing the school run.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15237018

[Plain Talker]

I agree Plain. Should it have to say it in the scriptures though. It seems alien to me to be told you must treasure and respect women, daughters, wives and mothers.

 

Thanks for answering by the way. I don't want you to think this is some cunning plan to slag off Islam. I am genuinely interested in why as you say, the books say respect yet the real world teachings seemingly don't.

 

As I said in one of my responses, above, there are many examples of supposed adherents of their faith who are the worst possible 'advertisements' for that faith. People who profess faith 'X', and act in a way totally opposed to that path.

 

I know Muslims who Drink Alcohol, and Smoke, both considered Haram, in Islam.

 

I know of at least one Jew in my personal circle who eats bacon.

 

I know of quite a number of 'practising' Christians who are sexually active outside marriage. A friend of mine was married to a pillar of the church, literally... a man who was a Parson.

 

This man beat her up unmercifully, all their married life. They were married for thirty-some years. He capped his beatings, by taking off with the wife of one of the parishioners, with whom he'd been having an affair.

 

I agree with you, 100% that it should be second nature to be treasuring and nurturing of others, never mind just women.

 

No, it shouldn't need to be writ large in the scriptures... being uncaring about others is an alien concept to me, too.

 

I am happy to answer genuine questions, within my capability and learning, Tony:- I'm not 'precious' about that. It's the deliberately goading and mocking type of question, where the asker isn't actually interested in an answer, where they just have an 'agenda', that I don't have time for.

[Bulgarian]

What confuses me if that if it says you should respect women in a religious text and some people obviously don't then why arn't they punished in the same way they would be if they ignored any of the other rules ?

[chem1st]

They can marry and screw men for 50% of their wealth.

[flamingjimmy]

It does say in the scriptures, that women should be treasured and respected. Acid attacks are neither treasuring nor respecting women, are they?

 

The Islamic scriptures may indeed say that, but they also says it's ok to beat your wife if she doesn't do as you say, as long as you don't beat her too hard.

[flamingjimmy]

The rights of woman to vote, be educated, to own property, etc, was brought in more through Islam.

 

Can you substantiate this claim please.

 

EDIT: I'm rather sceptical because in my experience, religious people, including yourself in the past on this forum seem to have no problem cherry picking things like this.

 

Basically, anything that happens in Islamic societies that is bad, according to you and others like you, is cultural and has nothing to do with Islam.

 

Prime example of this: Treatment of women.

 

And anything that happens in Islamic societies that is good, you say is because of Islam, not culture.

 

Prime example of this: views of the alleged 'Islamic golden age'.

 

Christians make exactly the same intellectual contortions so don't think I'm singling out Islam.

 

Do you see why that might make someone approaching this from a dogma-free position rather skeptical of these claims?