What has religion done for women.

[aelfheah]

Come on, Mary Magdalene was the crucial witness to Jesus's rising after his death?

 

Sure, she disappears from history shortly after the disciples disbelieved her...

[mj.scuba]

For the most part that's right, one of the things that's been holding back humanity for centuries since the rise of Christianity (as well as its spin-off Islam) is the idea that this life is merely a preparation for an eternal afterlife. And consequently, that making this world better is not anywhere near as big a priority as preparing yourself for the next one.

 

Also, within Christianity especially, there is a bizarre and rather sinister cult of suffering, perpetuated by the catholic church right up into modern day, that somehow, having lots of people suffering is good and holy. For a recent example, see Mother Teresa, who glorified the suffering of the poor, even though she was in a position to do massive amounts of good and alleviate some of that suffering. She spent the millions she acquired for the catholic church in donations from all over the world on convents instead of hospitals, trying to spread the faith to prepare people for the next world instead of alleviating suffering in this one.

 

Some good points there flamingjimmy.The thing about afterlife is interesting and how it came about. Christianity sprang from Judaism, yet afaik Jews don't believe in the concept of Heaven or Hell, though I'm unsure if they believe in afterlife of any sort.

[Plain Talker]

Some good points there flamingjimmy.The thing about afterlife is interesting and how it came about. Christianity sprang from Judaism, yet afaik Jews don't believe in the concept of Heaven or Hell, though I'm unsure if they believe in afterlife of any sort.

 

The Pharisees did, but the Sadducees didn't believe in an afterlife.

[Plain Talker]

The Islamic scriptures may indeed say that, but they also says it's ok to beat your wife if she doesn't do as you say, as long as you don't beat her too hard.

 

Jimmy, I can tell you, it says, in those scriptures, (précised) "What? you call yourself a Believer, when you beat your wife like you'd beat your she-camel?"

[Plain Talker]

"To seek knowledge is obligatory on every Muslim."

(Hadith, Declared Authentic By Shaikh Muhammad Naasir-ud-Deen Al-Albaani)

 

The Messenger of Allah (SAW) said: "If someone’s wife asks his permission to go to the mosque, he should not deny it to her."

 

"And among His signs is this: that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest and peace of mind in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Certainly, herein indeed are signs for people who reflect." [Noble Quran 30:21]

 

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The most perfect in faith amongst believers is he who is best in manners and kindest to his wife." [Abu Dawud]

 

A woman is to be treated as God has endowed her, with rights, such as to be treated as an individual, with the right to own and dispose of her own property and earnings, enter into contracts, even after marriage. She has the right to be educated and to work outside the home if she so chooses. She has the right to inherit from her father, mother, and husband. A very interesting point to note is that in Islam, unlike any other religion, a woman can be an imam, a leader of communal prayer, for a group of women.

 

A Muslim woman also has obligations. All the laws and regulations pertaining to prayer, fasting, charity, pilgrimage, doing good deeds, etc., apply to women, albeit with minor differences having mainly to do with female physiology.

 

Before marriage, a woman has the right to choose her husband. Islamic law is very strict regarding the necessity of having the woman's consent for marriage. The groom gives a marriage dowry to the bride for her own personal use. She keeps her own family name, rather than taking her husband's. As a wife, a woman has the right to be supported by her husband even if she is already rich. She also has the right to seek divorce and custody of young children. She does not return the dowry, except in a few unusual situations.

 

Despite the fact that in many places and times Muslim communities have not always adhered to all or even many of the foregoing in practice, the ideal has been there for 1,400 years, while virtually all other major civilizations did not begin to address these issues or change their negative attitudes until the 19th and 20th centuries, and there are still many contemporary civilizations which have yet to do so.

 

"O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should you treat them with harshness, that you may take away part of the dowry you have given them - except when they have become guilty of open lewdness. On the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If you take a dislike to them, it may be that you dislike something and Allah will bring about through it a great deal of good." <Noble Quran 4:19>

 

In one Hadith, Mohammed expressed his extreme repulsion of wife beating and said, "How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?” (Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43)

[flamingjimmy]

Jimmy, I can tell you, it says, in those scriptures

If you fear high-handedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them.

 

It's pretty clear, if your wife doesn't obey you, firstly remind her that god says she's supposed to obey you, then withdraw sex, and if neither of them work then hit her.

 

And just in case you thought Mohammed disagreed with that here is a summary of one of Mohammed's sermons from Ibn Ishaq:

 

You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do, God allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them but not with severity.

And here's another delightful story from a respected Islamic source.

 

Yes. [Mohammed] struck me on the chest which caused me pain' date=' and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?[/quote']

 

Now its worth mentioning that some modern scholars translate that is 'pushed' not 'struck', but the fact still remains that Mohammed himself admonished his own wife with violence, enough to cause her pain at the very least, as she described.

 

Mohammed is not at all opposed to hitting your wife on principle, he just doesn't want you to hit her too hard. How very admirable

 

As for the article you quoted in your other post:

 

"Despite the fact that in many places and times Muslim communities have not always adhered to all or even many of the foregoing in practice"

 

Firstly, that first clause should read: Despite the fact that in the vast majority of Islamic communities throughout history women have been treated like crap.

 

"The ideal was there for 1400 years" An ideal that is not clear enough to be followed, as evidence by pretty much every Islamic society that has existed.

 

The authors of the Quran really didn't do a very good job at making that ideal clear, it obviously wasn't an important issue to them. Why is there not a command saying explicitly: Men, do not abuse women.

 

"while virtually all other major civilizations did not begin to address these issues or change their negative attitudes until the 19th and 20th centuries, and there are still many contemporary civilizations which have yet to do so."

 

You're missing the point. I don't just speak out against the rampant sexism within Islam just because it is sexist, I do it because it is sexist and is also claimed as a divinely inspired, perfect way of life, and the Quran is claimed by so many to be the perfect book.

 

If, people dropped the whole 'divinely inspired and perfect' schtick and admitted that the Quran was authored by fallible men who were subject to the cultural whims of the time then I'd be much more sympathetic to this 'look at it in its cultural context' apologism.

 

If you maintain that the Quran is the revealed word of a perfect divine being, then you cannot excuse any passage at all on the grounds of 'well that's just how things were at the time'.

 

Either it is the perfect book, authored by god.

 

Or it is just another book, written by people who put in their own cultural biases.

 

You cannot have it both ways.

[skinz]

I can't think of anything and heard someone on the radio ask the same question.

 

Thought I would ask on here.

 

Can you give me any examples of religion doing positive things for women? Have any of the religions helped women fight for equality or the vote for instance?

 

I don't know of any religions which support a woman's right to have an abortion.

 

Any examples?

 

With my limited knowledge of the scriptures, both old and new testament plus the Quran there are many versus which can be interpreted as favorable towards women but as a contradiction the opposite is also true.

 

What's interesting is why the question towards women are raised in both books in the same way it's not asked of men..why are the questions so specific?

 

As jimmy has suggested, why are these books so ideologically imperfect considering the perfection of Gods. If their the words of men and men alone, I can handle that..man is not perfect.

 

As to the title..Why should anything have to be done for women in its name?

[quisquose]

If you maintain that the Quran is the revealed word of a perfect divine being, then you cannot excuse any passage at all on the grounds of 'well that's just how things were at the time'.

 

Either it is the perfect book, authored by god.

 

Or it is just another book, written by people who put in their own cultural biases.

 

You cannot have it both ways.

Absolutely.

 

I find it incredible that apologists for whatever the scripture they are addicted to manage to juggle with the cognitive dissonance that must reside in their heads constantly.

 

I wonder if they really believe what they claim they believe.

 

[Suffragette1]

Absolutely.

 

I find it incredible that apologists for whatever the scripture they are addicted to manage to juggle with the cognitive dissonance that must reside in their heads constantly.

 

I wonder if they really believe what they claim they believe.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. Or the 'translation argument' I often see trotted out to try and defend the position of women in the Quran when certain passages are cited. Either way, in practice, the status of women in a vast range of Islamic cultures is 100s of years behind that in the West.

[steelhead4]

All branches of the paganism support the idea that in all things there is an equal balance between the male and female aspects. So please dont include it in your rather wide ranging assumption