What has religion done for women.

[flamingjimmy]

Saying that modern paganism is "wishy-washy" is pretty derogatory towards it

 

Yes, that was my intention. I think it is wishy washy nonsense. I regret that it offends you, but not that I said it. I am often pretty derogatory towards paganism, and all other religions.

 

I used the term 'wishy washy' to differentiate between modern paganism, which is, well, wishy washy, and the pre-christian northern European beliefs upon which modern pagans claim to base their ideology, which, to use an anachronistic term, seemed to be a fair bit more hardcore.

[flamingjimmy]

If you wish to sell it presently without it's origins then accept that it's a dilution..or in jimmy's case "wishy washy".

 

Yes that's about right. Dilution is a good metaphor for what I mean.

 

It's like the difference between the the catholicism of the Pope and the wishy washy anglicanism of Rowan Williams.

[steelhead4]

Ok , I know where you are coming from now , you are just happy to be derogatory towards others instead of respecting anothers belief even if you don't share it yourself.

 

There are other categories that sort of thought would fall into , however the words for most of them would probably upset the mods.

 

One for the ignore bin I think...

[flamingjimmy]

Ok , I know where you are coming from now , you are just happy to be derogatory towards others instead of respecting anothers belief even if you don't share it yourself.

Derogatory towards other's beliefs? yes of course I'm happy to do that.

 

If you believe that gays should be executed should I respect that?

 

Should we respect the beliefs of Al Qaeda or the Westborough Baptist church?

 

I say no to both questions. I'm perfectly happy to say those ideologies are disgusting.

 

Similarly if someone believes that computers work because there are armies of tiny little men with calculators inside them, should I respect that belief?

 

Again, no, it is absurd.

 

I respect your right to hold whatever beliefs you want, but I will not respect those beliefs just because you hold them, that is ridiculous.

One for the ignore bin I think...

If you really feel that the fact that I think modern paganism is nonsense and do not censor myself from saying so is a legitimate reason for terminating our exchange then fair enough. I think that's incredibly silly.

[gularscute]

Islam does support the right to have a termination, such as in the case of risk to the mother if the pregnancy continues. Of course it's preferred not to, but if it's necessary to save the mother, it's the lesser of the two evils.

 

As for equality, yes, again, Qur'anic Islam does give rights to women. In Quranic (as opposed to 'Cultural') Islam, women are given the right to vote, to own property, to conduct business, to be educated, to reject an unsuitable marriage partner. ( in fact, in the 7th century, when the scriptures were being revealed, these rights were conferred on women, when, a thousand years later, in the west, the debate was still going on about whether women, and the black man had souls, were worthy of salvation)

 

In Islam, there was a Garden of Eden, but there was no serpent, no 'apple', and no original sin.

 

We have the same obligations as men, in that both sexes are expected to dress modestly, make our five daily prayers, to pay our charity ("zakat") to keep the Ramadhan fast (health permitting), and to go on Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca, subject to our health and finances permitting)

 

Looked at another way, could it be said that Islam forbids termination unless there's a risk to the mother?

[CXC3000]

Looked at another way, could it be said that Islam forbids termination unless there's a risk to the mother?

 

And that's a problem because... ?

[Agbus]

From a site that despite its title has an anti religious bias.

 

Change in status: Jesus' radical treatment of women:

 

Christ overthrew many centuries of Jewish law and custom. He consistently treated women and men as equals. He violated numerous Old Testament regulations, which specified gender inequality. He refused to follow the behavioral rules established by the three main Jewish religious groups of the day: the Essenes, Pharisees and Sadducees. "The actions of Jesus of Nazareth towards women were therefore revolutionary."

 

1 Some examples are:

 

He ignored ritual impurity laws: Mark 5:25-34 describes Jesus' cure of a woman who suffered from menstrual bleeding for 12 years. In Judean society of the day, it was a major transgression for a man to talk to a woman other than his wife or children.

 

He talked to foreign women: John 4:7 to 5:30 describes Jesus' conversation with a woman of Samaria. She was doubly ritually unclean since she was both a foreigner and a woman. Men were not allowed to talk to women, except within their own families. Jesus also helped a Canaanite woman, another foreigner, in Matthew 15:22-28. and is recorded as having cured her daughter of demon-possession.

 

He taught women students: Jewish tradition at the time was to not allow women to be taught. Rabbi Eliezer wrote in the 1st century CE: "Rather should the words of the Torah be burned than entrusted to a woman...Whoever teaches his daughter the Torah is like one who teaches her obscenity." 5 Jesus overthrew centuries of tradition. In Luke 10:38-42, he taught Mary, sister of Martha.

 

He used terminology which treated women as equal to men:

Luke 13:16 describes how he cured a woman from an indwelling Satanic spirit. He called her a daughter of Abraham, thus implying that she had equal status with sons of Abraham. "The expression 'son of Abraham' was commonly used to respectfully refer to a Jew, but 'daughter of Abraham', was an unknown parallel phrase...It occurs nowhere else in the Bible." 4 It seems to be a designation created by Jesus.

 

Luke 7:35 to 8:50 describes how Jesus' forgave a woman's sins. He refers to women and men (i.e. "all" people) as children of wisdom.

 

He accepted women in his inner circle: Luke 8:1-3 describes the inner circle of Jesus' followers: 12 male disciples and an unspecified number female supporters (Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Susanna and "many others.") It would appear that about half of his closest followers were women.

 

He appeared first to one or more women after his resurrection: Matthew 28:9-10 describes how Mary Magdalene and "the other Mary" were the first followers of Jesus to meet him after his resurrection.

 

Mostly women were present at Jesus' execution: Matthew 27:55-56 and Mark 15:40-41 describe many women who followed Jesus from Galilee and were present at his crucifixion. The men had fled from the scene. (John 19:25-27 contradicts this; the author describes John as being present with the women.)

 

He told parallel male/female stories: The author of the Gospel of Luke and of Acts shows many parallel episodes: one relating to a woman, the other to a man. For example:

Simeon and Hannah in Luke 2:25-38

Widow of Sarepta and Naaman in Luke 4:25-38

Healing of a man possessed by a demon and the healing of the mother of Peter's wife, starting in Luke 4:31

The woman who had lived a sinful life and Simon, starting in Luke 7:36

A man and woman sleeping together in Luke 17:34

Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5:1-11

Dionysius and Damaris in Acts 17:34

Lydia and the jailer's conversion in Acts 16:14-34

 

The book "Women in the Earliest Churches" lists 9 additional parallels. 3 Author Ben Witherington III quotes H. Flender:

 

"Luke expresses by this arrangement that man and woman stand together and side by side before God. They are equal in honor and grace; they are endowed with the same gifts and have the same responsibilities."

 

Some theologians have speculated that the author of the Gospel of Luke might well have been a woman.

 

He expressed concern for widows: Jesus repeated the importance of supporting widows throughout his ministry. The Gospel of Luke alone contains 6 references to widows: (Luke 2:36, 4:26, 7:11, 18:1, 20:47 and 21:1)

 

Divorce: In Jesus' time, a man could divorce his wife, but the wife had no right to divorce her husband. This practice is supported by seven references in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) in which a husband can unilaterally give his wife a bill of divorce. There were no references to a woman giving her husband such a bill. In Mark 10:11-12, Jesus overthrows this tradition and states that neither spouse can divorce the other; he treats the wife and husband equally.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/cfe_bibl.htm

[Riche]

I can't think of anything and heard someone on the radio ask the same question.

 

Thought I would ask on here.

 

Can you give me any examples of religion doing positive things for women? Have any of the religions helped women fight for equality or the vote for instance?

 

I don't know of any religions which support a woman's right to have an abortion.

 

Any examples?

 

Your question should read "What has Islam done for women?"

[skinz]

Your question should read "What has Islam done for women?"

 

Why "should" it?

 

You're most welcome to start another thread.

[Bassman62]

but the fact still remains that Mohammed himself admonished his own wife with violence, enough to cause her pain at the very least, as she described.

Fancy beating up on a little girl.