Andy Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 It's not though. Someone sent to a failing school won't get as good a start in life as someone whose parents can afford a private education and the costs of university. Yes there are good state schools, but there are also pretty poor ones, particularly in poorer areas. Not everyone has the same access to education and therefore not everyone has the same opportunity in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy Jnr Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 But people should absolutely be encouraged to work hard, and those people who do, and are successful should be well rewarded. Regardless of success efforts should be recognised. There are many employees that put in the time and the work load yet still get overlooked when the rewards are handed round. The simple facts are that employers need workers/grafters, the small amount divvied out at the end of the week is seen as reward enough and for this they want loyalty, yeah right. Sympathy and understanding from people that don't have to consider spending money is meaningless and patronising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I am not sure how a bunch of people sitting in a church yard helps achieve that, though. The elephant in the room on this thread is the multiple protest sites around the world. It's not just London. The reason the protests are needed is because the issues being raised would never be reported widely in the media otherwise. Nor would our political leaders address the issues because they are in the pockets of the banks. The protest itself will not have any direct outcomes but it does raise awareness of just how subverted our capitalist system has become. It projects the issue right into the media and that is the point - it can't be ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ab6262 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Regardless of success efforts should be recognised. There are many employees that put in the time and the work load yet still get overlooked when the rewards are handed round. The simple facts are that employers need workers/grafters, the small amount divvied out at the end of the week is seen as reward enough and for this they want loyalty, yeah right. Sympathy and understanding from people that don't have to consider spending money is meaningless and patronising. oh pleeeease get a grip, yes many emplyees do put in the effort and the time thats called a job,its recognised by keeping the job, if you hadnt noticed there are many hundreds of potential applicants for each job! and that "small amount divvied out" as you call it is the wage for the job no more no less......er if you dont like it why not try setting up your own company?????? you may not find it quite as easy as you think us business have it:o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Taken from the Independent today. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/exclusive-coverup-at-st-pauls-2377923.html Exclusive: Cover-up at St Paul's Clerics suppress report on bankers' greed to save church embarrassment Brian Brady, Jane Merrick Sunday, 30 October Demonstrators in the Occupy London protests outside St Paul's A highly critical report into the moral standards of bankers has been suppressed by St Paul's Cathedral amid fears that it would inflame tensions over the Occupy London tent protest. The report, based on a survey of 500 City workers who were asked whether they thought they were worth their lucrative salaries and bonuses, was due to be published last Thursday, the day that the Canon Chancellor of St Paul's, Giles Fraser, resigned in protest at the church's tough stance. But publication of the report, by the St Paul's Institute, has been delayed in an apparent acknowledgement that it would leave the impression that the cathedral was on the side of the protesters. The Independent on Sunday understands that the decision has upset a number of clergy, who hoped that the report would prove that the church was not detached from a financial crisis that had its heart yards from the cathedral itself. The decision will fuel the impression that the wider established church is attempting to stifle debate about the tent protest, as leading members of the Church of England, including the Archbishop of Canterbury, have failed to comment publicly about Occupy London. A spokesman for St Paul's Cathedral said: "It has been decided to delay publishing this report until further notice as it wouldn't get the proper debate it deserves in light of the present circumstances." The spokesman refused to comment what the report's findings were, but it is understood it raised profound concerns about the banking sector's willingness to accept responsibility for the financial crisis. Such a critical analysis, coming from the institute which is described as part of St Paul's Cathedral's "wider mission", would be seen as highly inflammatory at a time when the church is going to the High Court to attempt to remove 200 tents from its land. The report was the most ambitious in a series of assessments on the banking industry commissioned by the institute, which was set up to provide "an informed Christian response to the most urgent ethical and spiritual issues of our times". Dr Fraser, who resigned on Thursday over St Paul's hardline position against the protesters, is the director of the institute. He was unavailable for comment. It is understood that the decision to delay publication was taken by the Cathedral Chapter, but it did not play a part in Dr Fraser's resignation. A spokesman for the Bishop of London said the diocese was not aware of the report, and there is no suggestion that anyone beyond St Paul's has been involved in delaying its publication. Yet the apparent cover-up is the latest damaging revelation in the saga which has dented the Church of England's PR image. At a time when few senior church people are willing to come off the fence about the St Paul's protest, there is a danger with the withholding of this report that the church will be seen to be actively suppressing the sort of debate that many of its critics favour. The St Paul's Institute survey was due to be published on 27 October to mark the 25th anniversary of the "Big Bang", when the financial markets were deregulated in 1986. The Rev Andrew Studdert-Kennedy, the Rector of Marlborough, who produced a series of reports on the financial industry during a sabbatical at the institute in the summer, said he had been asked to write a piece accompanying the launch of the survey results. He said last night: "I can see why they chose not to publish the report last week. It was going to get swallowed up by the other things that were happening. I watched it all with absolute dismay. The thing that really bothers me is when people say the church should be engaging in these issues, because that is precisely what the institute was set up to do. It has done an enormous amount of work." Mr Studdert-Kennedy, who refused to comment directly on the survey findings, said he had been "astonished" by the attitudes some City workers displayed towards the financial crisis. He said: "I did speak to many people about morality. I was amazed by how many banking crises there had been and how sanguine people were about them. A number of people said 'this is just what happens – it's the nature of banking, it's the nature of capitalism'. "It's one thing having a historical perspective, but I was astonished that people didn't try to learn a bit more. There is a recognition that there is something wrong, but a reluctance to admit that they are part of the problem. They can be good at criticism but not so good at self-reform. What we have got there is so much that is human nature, related to how they behave in groups." He conceded that the publicity surrounding the camp had been "awful". He added: "There may have been a very good reason to close the doors, but the way it was going to be seen by the outside world was terrible. It looks as if the church has come down on one side of the argument and the protesters on the other." Yesterday, pressure mounted on the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, and leading Church of England bishops to speak out about the continuing battle over the Occupy London camp. Dr Williams wrote what is understood to be a "supportive" letter to Dr Fraser when the latter resigned, but has refused to comment publicly. Besides the Bishop of London, Richard Chartres, only two others, the suffragan bishops of Buckingham, Alan Wilson, and of Sherborne, Graham Kings, have commented on the continuing crisis. Over the past three days, The IoS asked 80 Anglican bishops to comment on the protest. Besides these three, 16 gave a direct no comment or insisted it was a matter for the London diocese; 18 were away or unavailable for comment, and the remainder failed to respond. Dr Wilson has accused St Paul's of a "hysterical over-reaction" to the protest. Dr Kings told the IoS that the "the PR could have been handled much better" over the saga, adding: "I do question stratospheric bonuses but I am not against capitalism itself." Additional reporting Chris Stevenson and Oliver Wiseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Thanks for posting that green. I like the comment from Dr Kings - this whole problem is not about capitalism itself. It's about what has gone wrong with it over the last 30-40 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Thanks for posting that green. I like the comment from Dr Kings - this whole problem is not about capitalism itself. It's about what has gone wrong with it over the last 30-40 years. I agree. When we bailed out the financial industry but still allowed them to run it, capitalism failed. One of the biggest things our government could do going forward, is to give the old Monopolies & Mergers committee, now the Competition Commission, more teeth, and stop allowing 6 big competitors in each market. Look at Gas/Electric companies, the supermarkets, the phone companies and the banks. Due to the lack of competition and them buying one another out over the years (fuelled by the finance industry borrowing them monies!) we have been left with cartels, who control these industries, have abhorrent customer services and treat us with indifference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I agree. When we bailed out the financial industry but still allowed them to run it, capitalism failed. Exactly. There is no other industry with a fully funded taxpayer backstop for when things go wrong. That is not a free market, except only in the sense the industry has been free to do whatever it wants knowing we will pick up the pieces. That is a very heavily distorted market, nothing free about it in the classical sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 A wonderful post from the Guardian today. Its wonderful to see people working together here. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/oct/29/christians-defend-occupy-london-protest Occupy London could be protected by Christian ring of prayer Coalition of Christian groups plan to prevent forcible attempts to remove tents outside St Paul's Cathedral Christian groups have drawn up plans to protect protesters by forming a ring of prayer around the camp outside St Paul's Cathedral, should an attempt be made to forcibly remove them. As the storm of controversy over the handling of the Occupy London Stock Exchange demonstration deepened on Saturday, Christian activists said it was their duty to stand up for peaceful protest in the absence of support from St Paul's. One Christian protester, Tanya Paton, said: "We represent peace, unity and love. A ring of prayer is a wonderful symbol." With senior officials at St Paul's apparently intent on seeking an injunction to break up the protest, the director of the influential religious thinktank Ekklesia, Jonathan Bartley, said the cathedral's handling of the protest had been a "car crash" and predicted more high-profile resignations from the Church of England. The canon chancellor of St Paul's, Dr Giles Fraser, and the Rev Fraser Dyer, who works as a chaplain at the cathedral, have already stepped down over the decision to pursue legal action to break up the camp. Meanwhile, it has emerged that Shami Chakrabarti, director of the human rights group Liberty, is attempting to mediate in the dispute. She said she had contacted the corporation, cathedral and protesters to offer a "neutral space" to sort out the impasse. The corporation had not yet responded, she said, although St Paul's had acknowledged her offer. She said the protesters had been enthusiastic in their desire for dialogue and a peaceful resolution. "It would have been easy to opt for a line of action that would have led to images of police dragging away protesters, but they want to talk." It was claimed last night that a highly critical report into the moral standards of bankers has been suppressed by St Paul's amid fears it would inflame tensions over the protest. The report, based on a survey of 500 City workers who were asked if they thought they were worth their salaries and bonuses, was due to be published last Thursday. But publication of the report, by the St Paul's Institute, has been delayed in apparent acknowledgement that it would give the impression the cathedral was on the side of protesters. Christian groups that have publicly sided with the protesters include one of the oldest Christian charities, the Fellowship of Reconciliation, and the oldest national student organisation, the Student Christian Movement, Christianity Uncut, the Zacchaeus 2000 Trust and the Christian magazine Third Way. In addition, London Catholic Worker, the Society of Sacramental Socialists and Quaker groups have offered their support. A statement by the groups said: "As Christians, we stand alongside people of all religions who are resisting economic injustice with active nonviolence. The global economic system perpetuates the wealth of the few at the expense of the many. It is based on idolatrous subservience to markets. We cannot worship both God and money." Bartley said: "There are some very unhappy people within the Church of England. The protesters seem to articulate many of the issues that the church has paid lip-service to. Many people are disillusioned with the position St Paul's has adopted. To evict rather than offer sanctuary is contrary to what many people think the church is all about. The whole thing has been a car crash." On Saturday afternoon, more than 20 religious figures gathered on the steps of St Paul's to support the occupation, which began two weeks ago. The bishop of London, the Right Rev Richard Chartres, has promised to attend St Paul's in an attempt to persuade activists to leave. But protesters say they have no intention of packing up, many reiterating their intention to stay at the cathedral until Christmas and beyond. A spokesman for Occupy London urged the City of London Corporation to open a dialogue with protesters to avoid a lengthy legal battle that could prove expensive for the taxpayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 It seems it wasn't the fault of the banks at all. They were just like kids let loose in a sweet shop :hihi: Would you buy a used car from this man :hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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