Rupert_Baehr Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 ... either way, the eu could certainly put some tarriffs on and even if they are not large tarrifs it would make it harder for our business. ... The EU already charges non-EU countries import tariffs. - Which is why so many non-EU manufacturers set up factories in EU member states (like the UK.) If the UK leaves the EU, then manufacturers in the UK would have to pay the same import tariffs which other non-EU manufacturers have to pay. How many of those non-EU manufacturers who set up factories in the UK would keep them there? I seem to remember that - 2 or 3 years ago - there was considerable anxiety that GM would cease production in the UK and shift it to their factory in Kaiserslautern. What do you think GM would do if they had to pay EU import tax on vehicles produced on the UK and imported into Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mj.scuba Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 The EU already charges non-EU countries import tariffs. - Which is why so many non-EU manufacturers set up factories in EU member states (like the UK.) How much do Iceland, Switzerland and Norway pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 The EU already charges non-EU countries import tariffs. - Which is why so many non-EU manufacturers set up factories in EU member states (like the UK.) If the UK leaves the EU, then manufacturers in the UK would have to pay the same import tariffs which other non-EU manufacturers have to pay. How many of those non-EU manufacturers who set up factories in the UK would keep them there? I seem to remember that - 2 or 3 years ago - there was considerable anxiety that GM would cease production in the UK and shift it to their factory in Kaiserslautern. What do you think GM would do if they had to pay EU import tax on vehicles produced on the UK and imported into Europe? None of which would be an issue if the UK and any other current eu nations wanted to continue as a trade and customs union paralell to the "ever closer union" of the eurozone. Even if our EU chums decided it's their way or the highway, we buy more from them than they buy from us so every tarrif they impose hurts them more than it hurts us. It is not in the countries of europes interest to demand the UK people bow to ever more power in the hands of brussels beaurocrats. It is in the commisions interests but whom does the commision alledgely serve? There is already a 2 speed europe (eurozone/non eurozone)and it will shortly need to make treaty changes to deal with the eurozone issues. That is the time for mass repatriation of powers from brussels to the point of a trade and customs union only as far as the uk is concerned, or we veto everything until what we want is given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Even if our EU chums decided it's their way or the highway, we buy more from them than they buy from us so every tarrif they impose hurts them more than it hurts us. That hurt would be spread across a fair few countries, whereas we'd have soak up all the hurt coming our way individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 None of which would be an issue if the UK and any other current eu nations wanted to continue as a trade and customs union paralell to the "ever closer union" of the eurozone. a trade only union would be good, but a true an open, single market needs a lot of cooperation and synchronisation of laws. Even if our EU chums decided it's their way or the highway, we buy more from them than they buy from us so every tarrif they impose hurts them more than it hurts us. but they wont be imposing tariffs on exports from the eu, only imports to it. a separate uk, could of course impose it's own import tariffs but unless there are alternative products from other sources then you simply stoking domestic inflation. That is the time for mass repatriation of powers from brussels to the point of a trade and customs union only as far as the uk is concerned, or we veto everything until what we want is given. there aren't many powers that could be repatriated, employment law is thing which keeps being mentioned, but i'm intrigued to know why people think they deserve fewer rights and protections then their european counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 That hurt would be spread across a fair few countries, whereas we'd have soak up all the hurt coming our way individually. Agreed. If the individual countries all decided to let the commission attempt to crush our economy in exchange for some hurt to their economies then clearly european cooperation is a falacy and we need to be forming new trade relationships now if all that is keeping the nations of europe from declaring economic war on us is bribing the EU with our money to tell us what our laws are. However i think you will find our european neighbours are far more reasonable than that, some may indeed desire what we want. Trade, freedom, national democracy. Hardly radical demands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 a trade only union would be good, but a true an open, single market needs a lot of cooperation and synchronisation of laws. No it doesn't. It requires and absence of import tarrifs between members. That's it. Members can still ban certain products from going to certain nations. but they wont be imposing tariffs on exports from the eu, only imports to it. a separate uk, could of course impose it's own import tariffs but unless there are alternative products from other sources then you simply stoking domestic inflation. Obviously if in the course of renegotiation the eu imposed punative tarrifs we would impose punative tarrifs equal to or greater than those imposed by the EU. We've been paying for the excressance remember? there aren't many powers that could be repatriated, employment law is thing which keeps being mentioned, but i'm intrigued to know why people think they deserve fewer rights and protections then their european counterparts. Lets start with complete repatriation, then work our way through to see if anything can be better done by the eurocrats than by parliament and the UK civil service. Whatever they can do better we'll keep. Everything else goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Agreed. If the individual countries all decided to let the commission attempt to crush our economy in exchange for some hurt to their economies then clearly european cooperation is a falacy and we need to be forming new trade relationships now if all that is keeping the nations of europe from declaring economic war on us is bribing the EU with our money to tell us what our laws are. However i think you will find our european neighbours are far more reasonable than that, some may indeed desire what we want. Trade, freedom, national democracy. Hardly radical demands? That may very well be the case, but with all the major countries budgets under serious strain within the EU already, how do you think they'd take it if we cut and ran, leaving them with a multi-billion Euro black hole in their budget that they'd have to make up somehow. Maybe rational thinking of freedom and democracy would go out of the window with blame and revenge taking their place. Do we want to be the scapegoat for all of the EU's problems. If we stay in we have leverage, we can change things to our advantage if we can get to the heart of the EU, and make them realise that they need us. France and Germany are no more natural allies than we are with the French or the Germans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fine line Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Will the UK's influence within the EU be deminished if Turkey were to become full members? Turkey, apparently, would have more MEP's than the UK and therefore more voting power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 That may very well be the case, but with all the major countries budgets under serious strain within the EU already, how do you think they'd take it if we cut and ran, leaving them with a multi-billion Euro black hole in their budget that they'd have to make up somehow. Maybe rational thinking of freedom and democracy would go out of the window with blame and revenge taking their place. Do we want to be the scapegoat for all of the EU's problems. If we stay in we have leverage, we can change things to our advantage if we can get to the heart of the EU, and make them realise that they need us. France and Germany are no more natural allies than we are with the French or the Germans. How long will this leverage take? I've heard people say we can leverage it all my life, it just gets worse and costs us more and more. Next treaty, don't leave but opt out of everything bar customs and trade union as a condition of not vetoing. They won't have a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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