JFKvsNixon Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ah! The old "He has me beaten in open debate so I will call him a troll" syndrome. Well that should do it! It is one step higher than the "you are wrong, but can't explain why you are wrong" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L00b Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ah! The old "He has me beaten in open debate so I will call him a troll" syndrome.Not in the least (particularly since you have not 'beaten me in open debate'...you have yet to debate anything!) There have been ample opportunities for you to dispute my points with some substance/counter-evidence/etc., but you simply side-step the points made, with meaningless one-liners or unsubstantiated claims, and without adding anything of substance. You obviously don't want to engage in debate, and I'm not seeing anything in your posts so far to indicate that you even could. So, you know...if the boot fits and all that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampersand Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 No, not all. 79 Tories voted against the government’s EU referendum vote. There have been cases where the whip has been withdrawn from MP’s for such defiance. But if the whip is withdrawn from an MP, surely that is considered a good thing, as it leaves an MP free from being bullied or cajoled into voting the way of his party - does it not? The problem with having the whip withdrawn is that an MP is usually suspended from the party (albeit usually only temporarily) and he/she then has to do a bit of work to sort out what is happening in the House of Commons, what debates are when etc, as they are usually spoon fed all this by the Whip's office However, the Tory Party won't even think about withdrawing the whip from 81 MP's (or 83 if you add the two abstainers) - they will probably restrict the punishment to removing them from any Government role Also, being free from having to vote the way of the party usually then leads to de-selection as a Party candidate at the next election and the subsequent risk of the loss of your job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 The problem with having the whip withdrawn is that an MP is usually suspended from the party (albeit usually only temporarily) and he/she then has to do a bit of work to sort out what is happening in the House of Commons, what debates are when etc, as they are usually spoon fed all this by the Whip's office However, the Tory Party won't even think about withdrawing the whip from 81 MP's (or 83 if you add the two abstainers) - they will probably restrict the punishment to removing them from any Government role Also, being free from having to vote the way of the party usually then leads to de-selection as a Party candidate at the next election and the subsequent risk of the loss of your job What a wonderfully clear and concise response. Thank you Ampersand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ah, that old chestnut! Or maybe the 'locals' don't want to sleep 12 to a room and totally ignore our laws? Of course, with calm, reasoned debate like: Old chestnut alert #2! And what say would that be, then? They're all part of the same, cosy old-boy network who won't rock the boat, damage their feather-bedded existence or risk their pensions. The vote last night proved two things. Firstly, that the Government System 'won', and secondly that all three main parties treat the electorate with equal disdain and contempt. Don't think you've understood what I've said mate. Let's say there isn't going to a referendum (there isn't anyway), and it's suddenly general election time. Who can I vote for that will have in the manifesto that we will leave Europe or just guarantee a referendum. Based on the last election, none of the top 3 parties. Who else is there ? Right wing nut jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampersand Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 What a wonderfully clear and concise response. Thank you Ampersand. You're welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Shaw Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I think the debate is about whether or not to hold a referendum. Yes- so surely everyone (pro and anti EU membership) ought to be in favour of a vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magilla Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Ah! The old "He has me beaten in open debate so I will call him a troll" syndrome. You weren't beaten, you were utterly thrashed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampersand Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yes- so surely everyone (pro and anti EU membership) ought to be in favour of a vote? why would those in favour of the status quo want a referendum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepman Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 You weren't beaten, you were utterly thrashed He was, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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