poppet2 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yet it does exist; the real question is not 'How?' but 'Why? You mean there's something you don't know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Who says the universe is more complex than its creator? Where has the idea come from that God did not create the universe? Evidence please. Anyone that says the universe is complex so must have been created. I suppose it came about because there isn't a God and the universe wasn't created. A better question would be where the idea came from that a God did create it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I suppose it came about because there isn't a God and the universe wasn't created. And just how do you know there isn't a God, did he tell you so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 And just how do you know there isn't a God, did he tell you so? How could something that doesn't exist tell me anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 And just how do you know there isn't a God, did he tell you so? Where is the evidence that says there is a god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742Sheff Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Where is the evidence that says there is a god? Where the evidence to say there isn't a god? I think we're all going around in circles here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 How could something that doesn't exist tell me anything. Have you read the Sheffield sarcasm thread? http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=882444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppet2 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Where the evidence to say there isn't a god? I think we're all going around in circles here. Haven't you missed something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Where the evidence to say there isn't a god? I think we're all going around in circles here. It doesn't work that way. We'd be here for ever if we had to disprove everyone's claim. The onus should be on the person making the claim to prove their hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It's no more contradictory than saying- 'logical reasoning deduces that the universe must have no cause because a creator that has no cause cannot logically exist'. Therefore, the premise of the logical deduction is- If a creator exists, we must assume that it would need to be be a product of yet another creator, which presents us with a infinite regressive loop. My question therefore, is- 'How does logical reasoning deduce that a creator would need to be a product a another creator, then claim the universe isn't a product of creator? Also- Where do we draw the logical comparison between the theory of a causeless creator that created creation, and the theory of a causeless universe that created creation? I intend to explain that, but I have to start with getting you to agree to the original basis for discussion. Statement 1: Things which exist, must have been created by some cause. Statement 2: Things which exist, may do so without having been created by some cause. Are you willing to accept that one or other of those statements must be true, and that there is no third alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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