Could all life be alien to this planet?

[danot]

Why would something that doesn't exist need a creator.

 

It wouldn't. It would magically materialize from nowhere.

[JFKvsNixon]

So when are scientists going to prove how the universe can magically materialized from nowhere? Or is them saying it can proof enough?

 

Don't be so daft, see post 290.

[JFKvsNixon]

It wouldn't. It would magically materialize from nowhere.

 

It's interesting that throughout history people have often labelled something that they don't understand as being magic.

[0742Sheff]

That may be the case, but no cosmologist worth listening to would pull a theory out of the sky that was impossible to verify one way or another. Having not watched the TV program in question I cannot comment upon it.

 

 

It was Wonders of the universe that professor Brian Cox made. I just checked iPlayer but it's not on there any more.

[JFKvsNixon]

It was Wonders of the universe that professor Brian Cox made. I just checked iPlayer but it's not on there any more.

 

Is this the clip?

 

http://science.discovery.com/videos/wonders-of-the-universe-the-big-bang.html

[danot]

We don't need science for that. Basic thinking is enough. That's the point I was hoping to make, once you've accepted the original basis for discussion.

Correct. But basic thinking doesn't disprove the creationist theory, it merely infers that the universe magically materialized from nowhere as opposed to God magically materializing from nowhere.

 

As I said earlier, the "no cause" theory is no more plausible than the "creationist argument".

[0742Sheff]

Is this the clip?

 

http://science.discovery.com/videos/wonders-of-the-universe-the-big-bang.html

 

I'm not sure. I watched all 4 hours of it at once.

 

[edit] I dug out some headphones and watched it. Yes, that is the part of the program i am talking about. That was a very busy first second of the universe.

[danot]

Where has anybody suggested that the universe magically materialised from nowhere?

 

Without cause it must have. Have you a better explanation?

[danot]

Don't be so daft, see post 290.

I'm not being daft.

 

What existed before the big bang?

[HeadingNorth]

Correct. But basic thinking doesn't disprove the creationist theory, it merely infers that the universe magically materialized from nowhere as opposed to God magically materializing from nowhere.

 

As I said earlier, the "no cause" theory is no more plausible than the "creationist argument".

 

But that is where you err.

 

Given that one of the two statements must be true - either things can exist without cause, or they cannot - there are basically three arguments you can make.

 

One: the Universe has no cause.

 

If things can exist without cause, then we're done. The Universe can exist without cause. There's nothing to discuss.

 

Two: Everything must have a cause.

 

This is the infinite regressive loop. If the Universe must be created by Cause A, then Cause A must be created by Cause B, and Cause B must be created by Cause C .... and so on without ever reaching an end. There cannot be an "initial event" if you insist that they all must have causes, and so this is clearly impossible.

 

Three: the Universe must have a cause, but something else doesn't need to.

 

This is what logicians refer to as special pleading, and is dismissible immediately. You can't argue that something is impossible and simultaneously argue that it is possible, according to which part of an idea you want to talk about. It is an inherent contradiction and therefore automatically false.