Could all life be alien to this planet?

[danot]

It's interesting that throughout history people have often labelled something that they don't understand as being magic.

Well I'm going back a bit further than that. 13.7 billion years or thereabouts.

[JFKvsNixon]

Without cause it must have. Have you a better explanation?

 

I'll rely upon the people who've dedicated their life into finding the answers to guide me rather than pulling theories out of thin air.

 

The current accepted theory is that the universe originated from a singularity. What caused the singularity is the million dollar question, and one we cannot as yet answer as we do not know what happens inside a singularity.

 

I guess that the belief that magic was responsible for the creation of the singularity may satisfy some.

[0742Sheff]

I'll rely upon the people who've dedicated their life into finding the answers to guide me rather than pulling theories out of thin air.

 

The current accepted theory is that the universe originated from a singularity. What caused the singularity is the million dollar question, and one we cannot as yet answer as we do not know what happens inside a singularity.

 

I guess that the belief that magic was responsible for the creation of the singularity may satisfy some.

 

'What went bang?'

 

I've been asking that for years and have now accepted that no one knows and no one will know for a long, long time. If ever.

 

We (well, cleverer people than me), are now getting a pretty detailed picture of what happened from the first millisecond onwards.

[JFKvsNixon]

'What went bang?'

 

I've been asking that for years and have now accepted that no one knows and no one will know for a long, long time. If ever.

 

We (well, cleverer people than me), are now getting a pretty detailed picture of what happened from the first millisecond onwards.

 

I've read a claim that we can now understand the universe right up to the time when all the billions of galaxies, and all the billions of stars in those galaxies were compressed to a size of a beach ball.

 

When I say we, I am talking about the same cleverer people as you were.

[0742Sheff]

I've read a claim that we can now understand the universe right up to the time when all the billions of galaxies, and all the billions of stars in those galaxies were compressed to a size of a beach ball.

 

When I say we, I am talking about the same cleverer people as you were.

 

The problem is that scientists use light to determine the age of everything in the universe. Now the scientists at CERN are saying they have broken the speed of light. Doesn't that throw in to doubt every calculation done using light?

[danot]

But that is where you err.

 

Given that one of the two statements must be true - either things can exist without cause, or they cannot - there are basically three arguments you can make.

 

One: the Universe has no cause.

 

If things can exist without cause, then we're done. The Universe can exist without cause. There's nothing to discuss.

 

Two: Everything must have a cause.

 

This is the infinite regressive loop. If the Universe must be created by Cause A, then Cause A must be created by Cause B, and Cause B must be created by Cause C .... and so on without ever reaching an end. There cannot be an "initial event" if you insist that they all must have causes, and so this is clearly impossible.

 

Three: the Universe must have a cause, but something else doesn't need to.

 

This is what logicians refer to as special pleading, and is dismissible immediately. You can't argue that something is impossible and simultaneously argue that it is possible, according to which part of an idea you want to talk about. It is an inherent contradiction and therefore automatically false.

 

But you're neglecting to mention that argument one has two variable possibilities .

 

One A: If things can exist without cause, then we're done. The universe can exist without cause. There's nothing to discuss.

 

One B: If things can exist without cause, the creator could exist without cause. Would you care to discuss?.

[danot]

I'll rely upon the people who've dedicated their life into finding the answers to guide me rather than pulling theories out of thin air.

 

The current accepted theory is that the universe originated from a singularity. What caused the singularity is the million dollar question, and one we cannot as yet answer as we do not know what happens inside a singularity.

 

I guess that the belief that magic was responsible for the creation of the singularity may satisfy some.

It seems to satisfy you.

 

I'm more incline to believe there was a cause.

[JFKvsNixon]

The problem is that scientists use light to determine the age of everything in the universe. Now the scientists at CERN are saying they have broken the speed of light. Doesn't that throw in to doubt every calculation done using light?

 

No, 'cause the speed of light in a vacuum is always constant. What has happened is that they think they have found a sub atomic particle that has travelled faster than light.

[JFKvsNixon]

It seems to satisfy you.

 

I'm more incline to believe there was a cause.

 

Where in my post did I say that the singularity was caused by magic?

[Phanerothyme]

Surely all this talk of effect following cause is only applicable to entities perceiving it as such?

 

Get rid of the entities and you don't have cause and effect, you just have space-time. The universe just is.