danot Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Like watching a dog chasing it's own tail. With you, it's like listening to a little lap dog that yaps at everything that passes. So annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I know the universe exists without cause. I didn't ask you to tell me what you know, I asked you to explain how the universe can exist without cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I didn't ask you to tell me what you know, I asked you to explain how the universe can exist without cause. We have explained it but you admit to be lacking in the necessary skills to comprehend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 We have explained it but you admit to be lacking in the necessary skills to comprehend it. No you haven't explained it, all you've done is tell me it exists because it exists. That's not a comprehensive explanation. You claimed that you were able to comprehend how the universe could exist without cause, which to me, implies you're able to give a comprehensive explanation. If all you're able to say is- the universe exists without cause because it exists without an apparent cause, then you're simply making the assumption that there is no cause, you don't know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 No you haven't explained it, all you've done is tell me it exists because it exists. That's not a comprehensive explanation. You claimed that you were able to comprehend how the universe could exist without cause, which to me, implies you're able to give a comprehensive explanation. If all you're able to say is- the universe exists without cause because it exists without an apparent cause, then you're simply making the assumption that there is no cause, you don't know it. The universe is the totality of everything that exists; anything that exists which helped to shape the visible universe was already part of the universe. If as you speculate there was a time before the universe existed then nothing could have existed. Therefore there could have been no time and no existence before its existence. If nothing existed the universe must have been created by something that didn't exist so would have no cause, because anything that existed or caused it would already have been part of an existing universe. Science can only theorise and eventually proof what shaped the universe because it has no beginning and no cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The universe is the totality of everything that exists; anything that exists which helped to shape the visible universe was already part of the universe. If as you speculate there was a time before the universe existed then nothing could have existed. Therefore there could have been no time and no existence before its existence. If nothing existed the universe must have been created by something that didn't exist so would have no cause, because anything that existed or caused it would already have been part of an existing universe. Science can only theorise and eventually proof what shaped the universe because it has no beginning and no cause. The universe is the aftermath of the "big bang". Science has already proved that there was a beginning (the big bang), but it has yet to prove that it has no cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The universe is the aftermath of the "big bang". Science has already proved that there was a beginning (the big bang), but it has yet to prove that it has no cause. The big bang is a theory of the beginning of the visible universe but it was just an event in an infinite universe. The theory does have some flaws that can by be explained if it is cyclical, expands and contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0742Sheff Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Like watching a dog chasing it's own tail. Are you talking about watching you follow danot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The big bang is a theory of the beginning of the visible universe but it was just an event in an infinite universe. The theory does have some flaws that can by be explained if it is cyclical, expands and contracts.That's not the theory. The theory is that nothing (that means no molecules, no atoms... nothing) existed before the big bang. It was void of anything that is anything. There cannot have been a infinite universe before the big bang as that would mean the singularity is expanding into something.. the theory says it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 That's not the theory. The theory is that nothing (that means no molecules, no atoms... nothing) existed before the big bang. It was void of anything that is anything. There cannot have been a infinite universe before the big bang as that would mean the singularity is expanding into something.. the theory says it is not. You seem to have changed your mind, if nothing existed before the big bang then there was nothing to cause it. That contradicts your earlier posts in which you claimed it had a cause that you can’t comprehend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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