Stan Tamudo Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I don't think anybody begrudges the hard workers at the bottom of the ladder receiving government help. Earlier today you said this. Minimal, not no state involvement. I'm glad you've changed your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 What newspapers? Most of the current news on Somalia is provided by the BBC World News channel which is available on all cable and satellite systems. Or maybe the Beeb is just filling our heads with a lot of lies and falsehoods. I think you've lost yourself in all this mind meandering tripe that intellectual anarchistic pinheads love to dream up. Let me end by just saying that Somalia compared to the Second Tier of Hell could indeed be decribed as being "better off" Don't dazzle you with the facts huh? You carry on thinking from the gut Harleyman, I really really do wish you all the best of luck in the years to come within your free America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Don't dazzle you with the facts huh? You carry on thinking from the gut Harleyman, I really really do wish you all the best of luck in the years to come within your free America. As long as white supremacists can express their hatreds of minorities, as long as minorities can express their hatred of white supremacists as long as demonstrators can express their hatred of banks and corporations, as long as Muslims can express their disapporoval of the war in Afgahnistan, as long as demontsors can express their approval of the the war in Afghanistan, as long as gays can demonstrate against discrimination,as long as conservative evangelicals can demontsrate against gay marriage and as long as anyone can demonstrate for and against anything then I know I live in a country that believes in the true meaning of freedom. Can this be said of Britain today? Only partially maybe. A lot of freedoms have been taken away since I left decades ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 As long as white supremacists can express their hatreds of minorities, as long as minorities can express their hatred of white supremacists as long as demonstrators can express their hatred of banks and corporations, as long as Muslims can express their disapporoval of the war in Afgahnistan, as long as demontsors can express their approval of the the war in Afghanistan, as long as gays can demonstrate against discrimination,as long as conservative evangelicals can demontsrate against gay marriage and as long as anyone can demonstrate for and against anything then I know I live in a country that believes in the true meaning of freedom. What true meaning is this, that emphatically excludes freedom from abuse and hatred? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harleyman Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 What true meaning is this, that emphatically excludes freedom from abuse and hatred? It's the freedom of the spoken word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 It's the freedom of the spoken word Ah .... so no freedoms at all as long as people can say anything that comes into their head. Most people would not consider that an accurate definition of freedom, still less a "true" one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 As long as white supremacists can express their hatreds of minorities, as long as minorities can express their hatred of white supremacists as long as demonstrators can express their hatred of banks and corporations, as long as Muslims can express their disapporoval of the war in Afgahnistan, as long as demontsors can express their approval of the the war in Afghanistan, as long as gays can demonstrate against discrimination,as long as conservative evangelicals can demontsrate against gay marriage and as long as anyone can demonstrate for and against anything then I know I live in a country that believes in the true meaning of freedom. Can this be said of Britain today? Only partially maybe. A lot of freedoms have been taken away since I left decades ago You don't get it do you? You're not offending me at all by saying that Britain is less free than America, you're just making my point stronger- none of us are free under government, arguing about relative semantics regarding who is more or less free is totally irrelevant. Freedom enables you to make choices, you're free to choose one option or another. If you and I are so very very free why can't we choose not to have a government if we so wish? Why must blood be shed to get rid of dictators? Why is there no option on the ballot for 'none of the above'? The type of freedom I'm talking about gives everybody a strong political voice, not just the elite few. It allows you to influence how you run and organise your community. So it's a form of freedom that also empowers you directly. It gives people the freedom to travel the world without passport controls and security checks. These aren't needed because there are no government run armies or police forces available to subjugate other peoples and lead them to hate their oppressors. There's no need for a military industrial complex. No taxes are collected, if you make money, you choose how to spend it and learn how to spend it politically, ensuring no monopolies form to take the place of governments. No taxes are collected so it isn't worth invading other countries because there's no nice lump sum of wealth to take from them. Better still (in my opinion) there's no money at all. In times of great hardship people pull together and share what they have with others, we hear of this happening all of the time during WWII in Britain, why not in times of plenty too? People love to share with their peer group, they love to volunteer and to cooperate together on projects and too many studies have shown that it increases peoples happiness levels and intelligence to do so. Thatcher once said that making the richest richer drags up the poorer people too, but enriching everybody to the highest sustainable level is surely better for all? No poverty= much much less crime. Enriching the developing world will not make the average person poorer at all, it would only ever affect the top 1-10% of us and they have so much wealth they don't know what to do with it. Just think- No government violence on the TV every night- no riot police, no war reporting means far far fewer people will be subjected to violent images from a young age and I know you'll see a massive reduction in violent crime. After all, this is where most of us learn about violence- computer games and violent movies come much later in life than the daily news programs. And if it all fails, there's no need for a bloody military coup or a violent revolution for change to occur. All that's needed are a few ballot boxes and the LibLabCon Party/ Demopublican Party can carry on as if nothing ever happened. Preferably with a 'none of the above' option retained on the ballot box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Mod Note Please be careful of the quote tags when quoting other posts, I think I've sorted out the mess but cavegirl & harleyman have apparently been arguing with themselves for most of the page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Mod Note Please be careful of the quote tags when quoting other posts, I think I've sorted out the mess but cavegirl & harleyman have apparently been arguing with themselves for most of the page. I've noticed this problem happen before esme and I think it's an issue with your system rather than anything harleyman or I are doing. Thanks for sorting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esme Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Mod Note I've noticed this problem happen before esme and I think it's an issue with your system rather than anything harleyman or I are doing. Thanks for sorting it. It's not the system, it happens when someone edits a quote to highlight a section or trim it and messes up the tags All quotes should have a closing {/quote} and an opening {quote=username;postref} after they've been edited, only using square brackets not curly ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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