"Future of the Welfare State" with John Humphrys

[chem1st]

The more I think of it. The more I see how some peoples' 'money' actually does not exist. It is not legitimate. Their savings are seriously going to take a hit. They are going to get wiped out, and the state guaranteeing to protect them will only prolong the pain of the amputation. Were going for inflation. But the inherent problems will still remain. The danger is unemployment, and it's here to stay.

 

A lot of people on benefits will become seriously rich if benefits are stopped completely.

Age discrimination with regard to savings, tax rates, wages resulting from capital protection influencing the value of paper money.

 

Benefits provide a perverse discincentive which makes not working a rational economic decision. I've banged on about EMTR (Effective Marginal Tax Rates) many times.

 

The current system needs to be changed. We need an economic framework which encourages work, but provides for those at the bottom. We need a citizen's income and and a tax constantly proportional to income earned through labour. Earnings through other means can be taxed differently, and tweaked in due course. Particularly those derived from 'rent-seeking'.

[chem1st]

Many hard working people on low incomes get government help in the form of benefits such as family tax credit, housing and council tax benefits.

 

Pushes up the price of having a family, housing, council services etc.

 

And people under the age of 25 are denied thee in work benefits.

 

So unemployment in the under 25s rises and rises, they stop having/put off having children. The most attractive job is working for the council.

 

Honest productive work has become financially irrational.

 

The black market is booming. (It's more honest than the legitimate system at this moment in time - the legislators are the problem)

[LeMaquis]

I've banged on about EMTR (Effective Marginal Tax Rates) many times.

 

It's something we all look forward to.

[LeMaquis]

and the tories arnt asking the boe to print more money

 

The Bank isn't printing more money. Quantitative Easing is about creating money electronically. This buys financial assest from banks and other financial institutions, money that can then be lent to other businesses to stimulate economic growth. The government won't print more money as this will cause inflation and widen the budget deficit.

[grafikhaus74]

Obviously this programme has provoked all the usual opinions - none of which will get us anywhere.

 

Of particular interest was the bit about those unfortunates at A4e for 2 years! After running out of doing the usual CV and job search, they had the 'clients' making cupcakes. The mind boggles and it's obvious that this is simply a way to punish the unemployed. Yes, some deserve it but, utterly predicably, that sort were not to be seen in the A4e room. They were mainly white, middle-aged blokes. Hmm. Wonder why?

 

Anyway, the long-term solution to this, and the reason we're in deep, deep trouble as a country is breeding. Pure and simple.

 

While people are rewarded for churning out the next generation of illiterate oiks, they'll carry on doing it.

 

It's reported that the population of the UK will rise by 500,000 a year. Every year. Anybody know where that level of new jobs will come from? Me neither.

[chem1st]

Obviously this programme has provoked all the usual opinions - none of which will get us anywhere.

 

Of particular interest was the bit about those unfortunates at A4e for 2 years! After running out of doing the usual CV and job search, they had the 'clients' making cupcakes. The mind boggles and it's obvious that this is simply a way to punish the unemployed. Yes, some deserve it but, utterly predicably, that sort were not to be seen in the A4e room. They were mainly white, middle-aged blokes. Hmm. Wonder why?

 

Anyway, the long-term solution to this, and the reason we're in deep, deep trouble as a country is breeding. Pure and simple.

 

While people are rewarded for churning out the next generation of illiterate oiks, they'll carry on doing it.

 

It's reported that the population of the UK will rise by 500,000 a year. Every year. Anybody know where that level of new jobs will come from? Me neither.

They tried this in Germany and it was an utter failure. Men were being forced to put jigsaws together to check all the pieces were present, so it could be sold for a few €cent in a charity shop (tax exempt - and owned by the organisation gaining public subsidy). I believe the record for a 5000 piece jigsaw was 18 days. Such is the quality of the German man. Perhaps the British man unemployed and on workfare could assemble one in 17 days and we could declare a victory!

 

Our economy is fu-ecked. What's happneing now, is oing to filter through to the future. We need production. Give men a right to work and better themselves for crying out loud.

[grafikhaus74]

They tried this in Germany and it was an utter failure. Men were being forced to put jigsaws together to check all the pieces were present, so it could be sold for a few €cent in a charity shop (tax exempt - and owned by the organisation gaining public subsidy). I believe the record for a 5000 piece jigsaw was 18 days. Such is the quality of the German man. Perhaps the British man unemployed and on workfare could assemble one in 17 days and we could declare a victory!

 

Interesting, that Chem1st.

 

I'm re-watching 'World at War' and the parallels in the build up to WW2 are beginning to show. 'They' need a target group of outcasts to whip the public up against. Maybe the unemployed will be forced to work in armaments factories for their German masters?

 

And the Germans' need for Lebensraum? Let's tax the elderly out of their homes to 'prevent room blocking' as suggested recently by Tessa Von Jowell.

 

The new leader? Frau Emma Harrison.

 

You read it here first.

[GrapeApe]

 

To those that genuinely cannot work, they should be helped financially.

To the rest of the shameless benefits slobs, cut their benefits and get a job like the rest of us have to.

Just my opinion

 

What job? There are over 2.5 million unemployed.

[grafikhaus74]

The problem has been caused - as ever - by the politicians.

 

For a start, the ever-increasing taxes, including VAT, Council Tax, Fuel Duty which are taxes on tax, make it more unappealing to work, especially in the kind of 'jobs' that they're always crowing on about being 'out there'. When they take 50% of your money before you even see it, well who can blame people for saying 'no thanks'. Factor in rising transport costs and, for a lot of people, it's just not worth it.

 

Of course we get annoyed when they wheel out scum like those seen on this programme (the irredeemably thick bird with 7 kids, the bloke who doesn't want to work as 'he wants to see his kids grow up') but the politicians have basically said 'Breed away. The more you have, the more you'll get.' The fact that their offspring will turn out as stupid as their parents doesn't seem to occur to our leaders.

 

For years, teachers have been coasting to their pension. Doing as little as possible with little or no chance of getting fired. Of course not all the blame for the burgeoning illiterate yoof can be placed on teachers - but they cannot escape all responsibility.

 

Then there is the undeniable problem of immigration. No country on Earth can create jobs at the pace that we're letting people in from all corners of the globe.

 

And of course there's successive Governments who have allowed our 'crown jewel' businesses to move abroad.

 

Until we get rid of the politicians, we'll always have trouble.

[Pyramusb]

John Humphrys doesn't seem to understand that people on Job Seekers' Allowance already have to prove that they're looking for work. Jobcentres check up on people, often in very unfair ways. I remember getting a letter from the jobcentre saying they were going to cut my benefits because I hadn't applied for a job they'd pointed out to me 3 months earlier. Because I kept meticulous records I could prove that I had applied for that job (and many more besides). You are guilty until you can prove youself innocent. They have this rule but don't tell you about it so they can catch you out. So how is it tougher in America? I've had to do work placements for just a few pounds extra per week.

 

What he doesn't understand is that there are 3 completely different groups of people on benefits. People on JSA who don't have enough money to live on, parents (usually mothers) who get a payment for each child, and people who are ill and on Incapacity Benefit.

 

I was annoyed with that doctor who thought she was helping her patients by pushing them off IB. She didn't seem to understand that they would be going on to JSA and worse poverty and not into paid employment.