andygardener Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Ballsy move, at least with a referendum everyone concerned can get an answer from the greek people as to whether they are prepared to change before handing them a load more money http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h9ZIsq1doTw1I75wzZickGX7LhHA?docId=CNG.454170910956617c4e43dfe923f4a7a4.e21 Greek PM calls referendum, confidence vote on EU debt deal By John Hadoulis (AFP) – 46 minutes ago ATHENS — Embattled Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou on Monday called for a confidence vote and a referendum on last week's EU debt deal, taking a political gamble to silence growing opposition to his policies. "On this roadmap of political initiatives I ask for a confidence vote," Papandreou told his Socialist party lawmakers in parliament, moments after he announced a referendum would also be held on the EU deal. "An expression of confidence in the policy to be followed is more necessary than ever," Papandreou said, adding that the referendum expected early next year would be a "cornerstone" to build a "new era" for Greece. Papandreou, who has 153 deputies in the 300-seat parliament, has faced increasing dissent within his own party over the tougher austerity policy monitored by the EU and the International Monetary Fund that has sparked general strikes and widespread protests, many of them violent. "The command of the Greek people will bind us," the premier said. "Do they want to adopt the new deal, or reject it? If the Greek people do not want it, it will not be adopted," the prime minister said after protests around the country last week against his government's austerity policies. The confidence vote is expected to be held on Friday while the referendum is slated for early next year. An adverse result in either process would scupper the EU deal, which is designed to cut Greece's debt load of over 350 billion euros ($495 billion) by around 100 billion euros. It was only reached after months of haggling in marathon talks last Thursday and besides the Greek debt reduction included measures to bolster the European banking system, help other struggling eurozone member states and boost the size of the bloc's bailout funds. The finance ministry of Germany, which along with France had hammered out the EU deal, declined to comment on the announcement, with a spokesman in Berlin calling it "an internal political development in Greece on which the government does not yet have any official information." In a survey in To Vima weekly on Sunday, over 58 percent of Greeks termed the deal 'negative' or 'probably negative', although over 72 percent of those polled said Greece should remain in the euro. Papandreou's gambit came as Greece faced delicate negotiations with its eurozone peers on the details of last week's agreement and with global bankers asked to accept a 50-percent loss on their Greek debt holdings. Veteran political analyst Ilias Nikolakopoulos termed it "a panic reaction" and a "dangerous" decision by the Socialist leader whose approval ratings are at historic lows. The last referendum in Greece was held in 1974 when a broad majority voted to abolish the monarchy. Under the constitution and existing laws, referenda can be held on critical national issues or on parliament bills. The former case requires approval by 151 lawmakers and needs a participation of 40 percent of registered voters to be considered legitimate. The latter must be supported by 180 lawmakers and also needs a 50-percent voter turnout. Public anger showed itself again on Friday as parades were held to mark Greece's wartime resistance to Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy. President Carolos Papoulias walked out on a military parade in the northern city of Thessaloniki when hecklers labelled him a 'traitor' and other officials in other cities were also insulted. Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos indicated the referendum was hastened by political opposition at home to last week's EU deal. Successive efforts by Papandreou in recent months to gain support from his domestic political rivals to boost Greece's bargaining powers in Brussels failed. The finance minister later added that the referendum would be held after the details of the EU agreement are worked out, a process expected to culminate in early 2012. In Greece, many people believe the country has gone too far in allowing the EU and IMF to dictate economy policy in return for two bailout deals which have cost several hundred billion euros so far. The opposition parties lambasted the government's move. The main opposition New Democracy conservatives called Papandreou "ruthless" and "dangerous," accusing him of throwing Greece's EU future "in the air like a coin." "This is raw blackmail, we should have elections now," Makis Mailis, a spokesman for the third-ranking Communist party, told private Mega channel. Papandreou, whose term ends in 2013, has consistently ruled out holding early elections, which many analysts have warned would fail to produce a strong majority in parliament and plunge the country in political uncertainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Wouldn't suprise me if this is passsd actually. If the question in worded in such a way as to imply the future of Greece in the €uro is at stake then it could well pass. If it is purely about the bailout in such a way as to imply a no vote would lead to further negotiation on the bailout then it will probably be a resounding "No." Intresting how the papers are saying the move has "sent shockwaves through the corridors of Brussels and the EU," as if putting something of this magnitude to the people should be such a suprise or cause for concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Wouldn't suprise me if this is passsd actually. If the question in worded in such a way as to imply the future of Greece in the €uro is at stake then it could well pass. If it is purely about the bailout in such a way as to imply a no vote would lead to further negotiation on the bailout then it will probably be a resounding "No." Intresting how the papers are saying the move has "sent shockwaves through the corridors of Brussels and the EU," as if putting something of this magnitude to the people should be such a suprise or cause for concern. It's a tricky one to call. The Greek people seem keen to stay in the euro and very opposed to the austerity measures. Unfortunately for them to stay in the euro they need bailing out and to get bailed out they need the austerity measures...I suppose it will come down to who is most persuaive about which is the least worst option - stay in the euro and austerity or leave, devalue and a lot of uncertainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoatwobbler Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It's a tricky one to call. The Greek people seem keen to stay in the euro and very opposed to the austerity measures. Unfortunately for them to stay in the euro they need bailing out and to get bailed out they need the austerity measures...I suppose it will come down to who is most persuaive about which is the least worst option - stay in the euro and austerity or leave, devalue and a lot of uncertainty. It is a difficult, complex matter and it's going to be a bitter pill for the Greeks to swallow either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neeeeeeeeeek Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 There are more Porche Cayennes than people declairing earnings over 50k Euro's in Greece. Strange statistic but true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 It's a tricky one to call. The Greek people seem keen to stay in the euro and very opposed to the austerity measures. Unfortunately for them to stay in the euro they need bailing out and to get bailed out they need the austerity measures...I suppose it will come down to who is most persuaive about which is the least worst option - stay in the euro and austerity or leave, devalue and a lot of uncertainty. Unfortunately Greece, just like Britain, still has politicians willing to argue that they don't need the austerity measures to get the economy back on track; and some of the electorate will believe them. They're quite likely to vote "stay in the euro but without the austerity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_g Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I thought that one of the issues for Greece if it drops out of the Euro is that anyone who has a loan in Euros will then have to pay for that with Drachmas. Unfortunately, as the exchange rate will be so bad between the two currencies - paying off the loan will take much longer. That's what I was told, anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ampersand Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 They're quite likely to vote "stay in the euro but without the austerity." Only if they are given that option, which is very unlikely The options will probably be (although differently worded) 1. Keep the Euro and accept the austerity package 2. Reject the austerity package and most likely be kicked out of the Euro In other words - do you want things to be very bad for the foreseeable future and spend in Euros, or do you want things to really be bad for as long as we can forecast and spend in Drachma The only thing for certain is that the uncertainty will go on and on - there are many what ifs - fascinating times (if you're fascinated by this sort of thing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I thought that one of the issues for Greece if it drops out of the Euro is that anyone who has a loan in Euros will then have to pay for that with Drachmas. Unfortunately, as the exchange rate will be so bad between the two currencies - paying off the loan will take much longer. That's what I was told, anyhow. That is clearly something the "yes" side ie the EU and the Greek Government will be saying. Presumably that would just lead to people saying "stuff your debt, if the government defaults so will I" (not much use for a secured loan eg a mortgage though.) I have no idea how it would work but to be honest I suspect nobody does for sure, is there a precedent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 An interesting analysis of the recent developments below, perhaps the decision isn't so suprising after all? http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/11/not-such-surprise.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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