green Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Its nice to see the electorate have a say in the decision. Well done Greece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny5 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Its nice to see the electorate have a say in the decision. Well done Greece. Ha ha! As if. He's passing the buck to the Greek people to try and salvage his political career for a few more months. And people fall for it. If the Greek people fall for his trap and come out of the Euro they face financial oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Ha ha! As if. He's passing the buck to the Greek people to try and salvage his political career for a few more months. And people fall for it. If the Greek people fall for his trap and come out of the Euro they face financial oblivion. His career with the electorate is all over anyway. He will never be voted in again, nor can i see him actually going for it. If the Greek people agree to the bail-out, this money is merely for the French & German banks, its not for the electorate. Heres a piece from Liberal Conspiracy.... http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/11/02/why-greece-should-default-on-its-debts-and-leave-the-euro/ Why Greece should default on its debts and leave the Euro by Sunny Hundal November 2, 2011 at 8:50 am Last night the Greek cabinet backed PM George Papandreou’s proposal for a referendum on the bailout deal. Regardless of what bailout deal is eventually offered – the latest one hasn’t even been finalised yet – the public will very likely reject it. No wonder the markets are in panic: they hate the uncertainty of public opinion and democracy. It’s much easier for them to deal with stitch-ups negotiated by governments and IMF officials, forcing austerity on people than face the prospect of bank losses. Worse, the Greek problem isn’t even the worst calamity the Eurozone has to deal with. That problem is Italy. But briefly, here is the case for Greece to leave the Eurozone. As Frances Coppola has already pointed out, the Eurozone pursued monetary policies that was biased in favour of larger, richer nations such as France and Germany, while smaller countries like Greece suffered. The bailout is essentially a plan to save German and French banks, which hold a bulk of Greek debt. If it had been held by local banks, Greece could have defaulted ages ago, nationalised those banks and wiped its debts. We’re being sold this bogus line that Greece needs austerity because it spent far too much during the good years. Yes, Greece did run an unsustainable deficit, but that can only be dealt now by growing the economy – not imposing the kind of severe austerity that shrinks the economy at a horrifying rate. Even correspondents at the Telegraph now recognise this: Greece has been subjected to the greatest fiscal squeeze ever attempted in a modern industrial state, without any offsetting monetary stimulus or devaluation. The economy has so far collapsed by 14pc to 16pc since the peak – depending who you ask – and is spiralling downwards at a vertiginous pace. The debt has exploded under the EU-IMF Troika programme. It is heading for 180pc of GDP by next year. Even under the haircut deal, Greek debt will be 120pc of GDP in 2020 after nine years of depression. That is not cure, it is a punitive sentence Greece should leave the Eurozone for its own sake, and I hope Greeks will trigger that by rejecting the bailout plan. Here’s the bigger problem: the failure of European politicians to accept this inevitable outcome illustrates the sort of political paralysis that can only make things worse. And that problem is Italy. Greece is peanuts compared to Italy – which has €1.9 trillion in public debt and nearly €3.5 trillion in total debt. Think of financial crash following 2008 and multiply it by ten times, possibly more. We really are staring into an abyss. The attempt to preserve Greece within the Eurozone is now a distraction from the much bigger problem of Italy. And if they can’t even solve the first problem, which has been dragging on for months, we really are in deep ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygardener Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 So as it stands the greeks probably won't have a referendum but might, Papandreo may or may not go, their may or may not be an election and the bailout plan may or may not go ahead. Even if it does go ahead exactly as planned greece will be in worse shape at the end of the decade than they are now if they stay in the euro. That should convince non european countries to pour money into the eurozone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxman Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Its nice to see the electorate have a say in the decision. Well done Greece. Yep, the cradle of democracy, then and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Only if they are given that option, which is very unlikely In the referendum, granted. What's likely to happen is that they will bring down the government and elect some other government which refuses to accept either option. People tend not to believe you when you say "it's either A or B." They have an annoying tendency to vote for neither, and then act surprised when B happens anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernStar Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 No matter what they do they are going to be in a bad place, as I understand it the Greeks with the bailout and after the so called Eurozone agreement will be expected to cough-up %120 of their GDP; this of course can't be reasonably achieved, so in return they will have to be constantly bailed out but without a cat in hells chance of getting back into a reasonable position, and even less with the austerity measures imposed. If I was Greek I'd want to pull out of the Euro all together even though this will be a disaster in the short to medium term at least they will be able to keep their sovereignty, self respect and in the long term stand a chance of pulling themselves back on to an even keel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Its all a bloody mess. France & Germany have today achieved a Euro Coup, by ensuring that the ministers around Pap, throw their toys out of the pram and not agreeing to a referendum (watch these spineless gits get big Euro jobs in the coming years!). Pap now has no referendum and an election instead, and the opposition who were originally arguing against the bailout (which is really for the German & French banks) are now saying they agree the terms and want to stay in the Euro. I pity the poor hard-working Greeks, and there are many of them. Yet again the Establishment & bankers win, and the poor lose. How long can these bail outs continue? Italy is weeks away from a major crisis which the Eurozone cant afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthernStar Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I pity the poor hard-working Greeks, and there are many of them. Yet again the Establishment & bankers win, and the poor lose. How long can these bail outs continue? Italy is weeks away from a major crisis which the Eurozone cant afford. Dunno, but if someone started up in the business of Guillotine manufacturing they be likely to make a killing (pun intended!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Dunno, but if someone started up in the business of Guillotine manufacturing they be likely to make a killing (pun intended!). I hear you well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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