Would you support austerity measures if your family were to pay the price?

[tinfoilhat]

I think somebody needs to go. Not some investment bank nobody has heard of, but a big known bank or, sadly for Greece Italy et al, a country." We've run out of money, gimme more". So us, the tax payer all over Europe sticks there collective hands in our pockets and pay more. "sorry we've spent it on kebabs, stupidly high pensions and a very low retirement age " and we give them some more. I know alot of Greeks will suffer, but really, tough. I don't want the austerity measures over here but we've got them and got to make do. And as the Greeks are relying on my money and my hardships and they don't want hardships of their own I'd like my money back.

[L00b]

And as the Greeks are relying on my money and my hardships

Not really.

 

We're not in the €, and our own contribution to sorting out this mess is pretty minimal (not to say insignificant), compared to those of the € club members (Germany and France first and foremost).

 

The Greece issue is not a big deal for the UK, from a/your/the Gvt's cash point of view.

 

But its implications (if Greece defaults) are potentially a huge deal for the UK, if the EU comes apart as a result, since the EU (mostly the € zone therein) is still our largest commercial partner, by very far.

[Anna Glypta]

We are seeing the average Greek rejecting the austerity measures, as for them it is absolutely certain to mean a reduction in living standards, however for many they will pay the ultimate price and are likely to lose their homes, plus everything they have worked for in life.

 

The political class (plus many average brits) say we are all in this together and as the Greeks have been living beyond their means, they should suffer from whatever fallout comes from austerity.

 

Is that fair for the average Greek, who went about his everyday life, earning a living, when the people who were the the root cause of the problems (the political class) seem to be getting away scot free. These people (the political class) believe that the average Greek should take the pain squarely on the chin, whilst they continue their cosy life, while their fellow countryman have his/her life destroyed.

 

If you were a Greek, or come the time when we face austerity, will you welcome these packages of massive cuts?

 

Or will it be a case of - "yes, i fully support the austerity measures, provided my own family are not threatened by the consequences)

 

or will you...

 

Happily lose your home leaving your family destitute?

You make the assumption that just one class of people in Greece is to blame. It is the entire society that has enjoyed a standard of living and social services that were paid for on borrowed money. This was exacerbated by a population that generally fiddled their taxes, and a civil service that was corrupt and couldn't be bothered to enforce the rules.

 

The options now for Greeks are..

 

1…To take the painful reality and pay for the lifestyle they have had on credit.

 

Or

 

2…To default on their borrowing and expect the rest of humanity to pay their bills.

[truman]

You make the assumption that just one class of people in Greece is to blame. It is the entire society that has enjoyed a standard of living and social services that were paid for on borrowed money. This was exacerbated by a population that generally fiddled their taxes, and a civil service that was corrupt and couldn't be bothered to enforce the rules.

 

The options now for Greeks are..

 

1…To take the painful reality and pay for the lifestyle they have had on credit.

 

Or

 

2…To default on their borrowing and expect the rest of humanity to pay their bills.

 

Given their past behaviour which do you think it'll be?

[Jonny5]

In idiot terms if Greece fails the domino effect may take down Italy-Spain-France-Germany. These are our main trading partners. If they don't have money to trade we are in schtum.

 

The Greeks behavior could affect everyone but does no-one any good, ironically least of all themselves. As a country they need to sort themselves out because the days of sitting around, doing nothing and retiring at 60 are not sustainable. They never were. And now we might all pay the price.

[iansheff]

Not really.

 

We're not in the €, and our own contribution to sorting out this mess is pretty minimal (not to say insignificant), compared to those of the € club members (Germany and France first and foremost).

 

The Greece issue is not a big deal for the UK, from a/your/the Gvt's cash point of view.

 

But its implications (if Greece defaults) are potentially a huge deal for the UK, if the EU comes apart as a result, since the EU (mostly the € zone therein) is still our largest commercial partner, by very far.

 

I read somewhere today that it would cost people here £14000 each, can't find where I read it now though.

[tinfoilhat]

How much are we paying? I think I've read billions but couldn't swear to it. I know the Germans and French really will be paying through the nose.

 

I know I'll sound like a simpleton but it isn't fair. Banks run out of money jo public pays and gets nothing out of it ( ie no banking reforms what so ever) country x goes under without wanting to help themselves and jo public to a greater or lesser degree pays as well. I know we aren't paying much and to an extent I can see why but if we keep bailing out idiots all we'll have is line of idiots behind them with their hands out. Italy will be next, then Spain, then Portugal then Ireland, then as we'll be knee deep in recession before too long it will be Greece or the banks again.

[blades89]

I disagree that it is your "average" Greeks fault.

 

Like most average people, including here in the UK your priority is to put food on the table and put a roof over your head.

 

If the Government of the day did not support manifacturing, or other wealth creating industrys, then your average Greek could not do what is classed as a productive job. If the job on offer was an odd public sector job and the role was a "coffee bar drinker", and the salary was 20k per annum, and your average Greek got that job, like most of us he or she would take that role.

 

The average Greek can only do the work that is available.

 

The country was ran by the polititians/the political class and they sent the country down the path that has ended up with this mess. I personally feel these people are happy to commit the average Greek to a life of hell, while they get away scot free saying, claiming they are "taking tough decisions".

 

These people taking the "tough decisions" will not be the ones to lose there homes. These people remind me of the armchair generals, the ones who believe that we must go around the world standing up to dictators (we have a duty), as long as someone else is doing the fighting/or dying.

 

With regards the 'living within your means' argument. YOu can only cut back so far, if you need £1000 a month just to pay for the essentials in life (food, gas, rent, council tax, petrol, insurance etc....) then if you take too much of a pay cut you will lose everything.

 

Also, lets not forget Greece are now having to put up with increased taxes - how many average British people could cope with an increase in tax?

 

Also in Ireland, wasn't the national minimum wage cut to something like £5.40 an hour (I don't know the exact figure). I personally would not like to run a house on that wage.

 

Austerity - we are all in it together.

 

Its like a ladder where everyone has to take one step down and the ladder leads into a river swarming with crocodiles, the political class at the top of the ladder are happy to take one step down, the average person who is at the bottom of the ladder is pooping his pants, because one step down and he is history

[Anna Glypta]

I think if the Greeks do vote against austerity measures the rest of Europe has every right to stop giving them billions in bailout money. I'm not sure the Germans, who are pumping in the most, will fancy giving all their hard earned to the bubbles only for them to turn round and say give me more I've spent it already. And we don't want the germans getting restless.

 

The situation in Greece is a lot simpler than that. If the population vote against the bail out and the austerity measures the country would simply default on the money it already owes. It is mainly the repayment of it's obligations that means the country has no cash to pay the civil service. So by ignoring the debt it owes to the rest of the world Greece would probably be able to pay its workers more money. What those owed the huge amounts of money would think about that is difficult to gauge.

[truman]

Also, lets not forget Greece are now having to put up with increased taxes - how many average British people could cope with an increase in tax?

 

 

From what I've read any tax payment would be an increase for the Greeks..they've been retiring very early (50 in some cases) on 95% of their income and haven't been paying their tax...the membership of the EU and joining the Eurozone must have been like manna from heaven for them..unfortunately,for them, the pigeons have come home to roost and it's time to cough up..but I don't suppose they will..they'll leave everyone else in the lurch..