Theresa May uses the Starbucks argument again

[donkey]

Do you remember when you popped into the local cafe and got a good cup of coffee for 50p?

 

I remember the '50p' but not the 'good'.

[Riche]

Idealist, don't you just love em.

[epiphany]

If I've read you right you are advocating a free market system with a publicly-funded safety net which compensates individuals who suffer from the behaviour of the more rapacious companies rather than compensating the companies themselves when it all goes belly up. Is that right?

 

I do advocate a free (at least freer than what we have now) market system, but not one based on the current strain of corporate capitalism.

 

If bailouts are necessary then yes I think we should be directing compensation to the people directly affected rather than the institutions themselves. That includes the employees who lose their jobs. We have to send a clear message to the corporate sector that they cannot rely on a socialised safety net to back irresponsible levels of risk taking.

 

The banks have shown they will just scoff a hefty portion of what we place in their begging bowls for themselves and much of it does not end up being invested into the real economy. We need more direct investment, to cut out the middleman so-to-speak. I'd recommend taking a look at the Positive Money campaign as they have done vast amounts of research on how banks really operate and has advocates from both the left and right of the economic spectrum.

 

I appreciate the argument that people vote with their feet in the marketplace and should bear some of the risk in doing business with volatile institutions, but at the end of the day most people are not aware of the kinds of shady practices that occur in the realm of high finance and how their money is being (mis)used. This is a separate issue of consumer awareness to help people make more informed choices.

[epiphany]

Idealist, don't you just love em.

 

Yes, and there are many idealists who believe the current system of socialised risk and privatised profit is sustainable.

[stevie1957]

That's because the 'working class' are all out working.

 

epiphany, I love your threads. They almost always make me stop and think.

 

They were condescending. Me and my mate were the only manual workers there (steel works) and apart from one other, the only union members.

[donkey]

You obviously didn't actually read the post you are responding too

 

Attention seeking beahaviour. "Ooh look at me, I'm so contraversial." If any of these types were serious, there's nothing stopping them going to live in one of the many countries where all the arbitrary arrests and brutality they claim to admire so much take place on a daily basis. The truth is they would probably poop themselves.

[Sierra]

They were condescending. Me and my mate were the only manual workers there (steel works) and apart from one other, the only union members.

 

I'm not surprised. Although very rude of them to behave like that. Most of them probably couldn't do a steelworker's job to save their lives.

 

We once took our car to a transmission shop for service. Just maintainence, there was nothing wrong with it. When we got it back, it refused to shift smoothly. It was so jumpy I was ready to throw a saddle on it. A phone call to the manager was useless. He kept insisting we'd brought it in like that. Umm, ok. Jerk. My husband took it another place where they had a look, laughed and said "someone forgot to reset the computer!" When he told them who did it, they laughed harder and said "that guy has no business managing anything! He's never turned a wrench in his life and in fact, refuses to get his hands dirty."

 

In my area of the US with this economic downturn, it's been mostly the college educated people who are looking for work and having trouble finding it. Those with a useful skill, like driving a truck, fixing cars or doing hair are still working. I don't know what I'd do without the guy who services our air conditioning.

[TheGuy]

I'm not surprised. Although very rude of them to behave like that. Most of them probably couldn't do a steelworker's job to save their lives.

 

We once took our car to a transmission shop for service. Just maintainence, there was nothing wrong with it. When we got it back, it refused to shift smoothly. It was so jumpy I was ready to throw a saddle on it. A phone call to the manager was useless. He kept insisting we'd brought it in like that. Umm, ok. Jerk. My husband took it another place where they had a look, laughed and said "someone forgot to reset the computer!" When he told them who did it, they laughed harder and said "that guy has no business managing anything! He's never turned a wrench in his life and in fact, refuses to get his hands dirty."

 

In my area of the US with this economic downturn, it's been mostly the college educated people who are looking for work and having trouble finding it. Those with a useful skill, like driving a truck, fixing cars or doing hair are still working. I don't know what I'd do without the guy who services our air conditioning.

 

Good to see an American posting on the forum. Can I ask what has made you join and contribute to a forum based in little old Sheffield, or how you even know of Sheffield?

[Sierra]

Good to see an American posting on the forum. Can I ask what has made you join and contribute to a forum based in little old Sheffield, or how you even know of Sheffield?

 

Why thank you.

 

Goodness, Sheffield has a world famous university. That, and when I was a kid, my grandmother had an old, old set of knives and flatware. Some of the less used pieces still had Made in Sheffield stamped on them. And of course, The Full Monty.

 

You Sheffield folk are very lucky. There is nothing like this where I live (everyone's too busy) but I wish there were. Some of the US based ones I've gone on, I don't like. The moderating is nonexistant or haphazard. Things quickly get out of hand. Anyway, I like the people here. A few are less than pleasant, but most are very nice. It's something different for me. I also get the see how non Americans feel about America. That's not always fun, but it's a different point of view.

[TeaFan]

I do advocate a free (at least freer than what we have now) market system, but not one based on the current strain of corporate capitalism.

 

If bailouts are necessary then yes I think we should be directing compensation to the people directly affected rather than the institutions themselves. That includes the employees who lose their jobs. We have to send a clear message to the corporate sector that they cannot rely on a socialised safety net to back irresponsible levels of risk taking.

 

The banks have shown they will just scoff a hefty portion of what we place in their begging bowls for themselves and much of it does not end up being invested into the real economy. We need more direct investment, to cut out the middleman so-to-speak. I'd recommend taking a look at the Positive Money campaign as they have done vast amounts of research on how banks really operate and has advocates from both the left and right of the economic spectrum.

 

I appreciate the argument that people vote with their feet in the marketplace and should bear some of the risk in doing business with volatile institutions, but at the end of the day most people are not aware of the kinds of shady practices that occur in the realm of high finance and how their money is being (mis)used. This is a separate issue of consumer awareness to help people make more informed choices.

 

Although that would be better than what we have now, how would it stop capitalists making short-term decisions that have a less financially-quantifiable negative effect on the rest of us? I'm thinking about business decisions which degrade the natural environment (like irresponsible logging or fracking). No bailouts needed there, but still actions that have real negatives for the rest of us in the long run.

 

I would prefer a society where private property is not recognised and there can be no virtual trading of commodities (i.e. you can sell any copper or wheat that you actually have in your possession but you can't sell any that is merely represented by pieces of paper or 1s and 0s). This would give us a truly resource-based economy where decisions are made on what resources we have available/left, not a fantasy economy based on the buying and selling of IOUs.