A poll on attitudes to pornography

[Chris_Sleeps]

If there were ten police officers subscribing to child porn sites with credit cards, which obviously wouldn't say Police Officer on them, then with co-operation of the card company they could trace the payment to a bank account, then the account holder.

How will the credit card company know what has been bought? It doesn't say "Child Porn Inc" on the bill.

[Frank Sidney]

How will the credit card company know what has been bought? It doesn't say "Child Porn Inc" on the bill.

 

Mmmm...that's a good point but there'll be a reference number..the credit card company will have to be willing to assist.When payment is made there'll have to be a company name...this company will have a bank account where the payment is made? A sort code and account number..

 

All that's needed is the bank's details where payment is made then there must be some law in which they would have to divulge the account holders details..Even if it was not possible to trace the account holder the account can be closed...It may be like painting the fourth bridge but there are only so many banks in the world and if someone approaches for an account who's previous one was closed the new bank would be aware, I'm sure...You try opening an account if you owed the last one money, its impossible...this is more important...

[Grandad.Malky]

Porn has already been around a long time. It's here because it satisfies the needs of a sector of the public. So long as it is regulated to the extent of being kept out of the hands of minors it would serve no purpose to outlaw it and that measure wouldnt work either

 

Earlier in the year while on holiday we went to Pompeii and while walking around the ruins you go through one that was a brothel and you can clearly see all the pictures on the wall / ceiling … something’s never change but you would have thought people attitudes might have.

[Frank Sidney]

How will the credit card company know what has been bought? It doesn't say "Child Porn Inc" on the bill.

 

Oh and the cards would only be used for this purpose so any payments made would obviously be to these child porn sites..

[Halibut]

Oh and the cards would only be used for this purpose so any payments made would obviously be to these child porn sites..

 

Frank, I think the police have probably considered these things at some length...

[ElasticMan]

I appreciate all that but to open a business account I'm sure you have to provide some I.D. so why can't the police track payments to the bank and then the account holder it wouldn't be difficult, surely?

 

I'm talking about the child porn sites which is a pretty serious crime but the police don't seem to be able to stop it. Look at the resources they're putting into cannabis farming for example, it'd be better off spent on issues like this.

 

If there were ten police officers subscribing to child porn sites with credit cards, which obviously wouldn't say Police Officer on them, then with co-operation of the card company they could trace the payment to a bank account, then the account holder. I know this is world wide but most, if not all, countries are seriously trying to stamp it out. It would just need a special agreement from police forces world wide to work together...

 

I don't understand how payments would be "difficult to trace" as you say, one bank would need the others details to make payment and I'm sure banks aren't in on this..

 

But you wouldn't need a business account. Any paypal account would do - pretty easy to set up or steal one. There is a massive online trade in fake credit cards, mule accounts, stolen paypal details. It would be a pretty stupid criminal who used his own account to channel his funds through.

 

Its not like they go to Barclays with a business plan for 'Nonceworld' and accept payments directly.

[AJ sheffield]

I don't want to spoil anyone's fun, but I wish that more people were aware of this kind of thing and actually thought about it.

 

Dont worry, you haven't.

[onewheeldave]

The vast majority of 'adult' sites are not illegal. They operate entirely within the law and in doing so make millions (billions?) each year.

 

The 'dodgy' sites, by which I expect you mean 'illegal' operate in a different way all together. They are hidden, encrypted and private - very hard to detect. Users are anonymous, payments are often hard to trace.

Efforts to bring them down often include police from different countries and end in coordinated raids and mass arrests after long investigations.

Surely if someone is involved in creating and spreading illegal images, then arrestsing and prosecuting is far better than just cancelling their payment card?

 

You mentioned how easily police found 'riot' suspects on facebook. Facebook users give all of their personal details, post updates in public, and facebook cooperates fully with the police - it couldn't be more different from a private encrypted network.

 

It's worth bearing in mind, as well, the realistic consequences of moving to restrict/ban any form of mainstream porn.

 

As is clear from other forms of prohibition (eg drugs) those consequences will not include people stopping using porn, but will include it going underground.

 

At which point there will be a lot of mainstream porn that is also "hidden, encrypted and private - very hard to detect. Users are anonymous, payments are often hard to trace.".

 

i.e. it will just make the detection of child porn even more difficult than it already is, because all porn will then be encrypted and hidden.

 

There are issues in porn concerning health of the workers in it and potential negative effects on some of those watching the more extreme forms, but, if you think about it, all industries have some issues (e.g. banking is far from free from negative aspects- no industry is).

 

The only difference with the porn industry is that some people are offended by it and go on a crusade to prevent those who aren't from using it- that's always going to lead to disaster if they get the bans they are after (just as has happened with drugs, where the prohibition has simply made things far worse and lead to an unregulated underground.)

 

Sometimes you just have to face up to the fact that, yes, there are some serious issues in an industry, but that the consequences of banning or excessivley restricting it, will be even worse.

[Bulgarian]

Even more disturbing is this:

 

Rocco Siffredi is a real perv, even by porn industry standards.

[Frank Sidney]

But you wouldn't need a business account. Any paypal account would do - pretty easy to set up or steal one. There is a massive online trade in fake credit cards, mule accounts, stolen paypal details. It would be a pretty stupid criminal who used his own account to channel his funds through.

 

Its not like they go to Barclays with a business plan for 'Nonceworld' and accept payments directly.

 

Well close the paypal account down and seize all funds.. And the paypal account, anyway, needs a bank account registering to it..A stolen paypal account will, also need a bank account registering to it...

 

I don't understand the "fake credit card" point because I'm talking about using cards authorised by visa and mastercard to the Police.

 

I don't also understand the point you raised about them not using their own account, this doesn't matter, the account can still be closed...

 

It's a simple plan, but for you I'll simplify it even more...only kidding,

 

Today - A police officer goes onto a site and makes a payment. He alerts the credit card company to watch for the payment with the relevant company, amount and ref number.

 

Tomorrow - The credit card company makes payment to the account. The address of the bank is noted.

 

The day after tomorrow - The police alert the police in the town / city of what has happened. The police visit the bank. The account is closed and all funds frozen.

 

The day after the day after tomorrow - The police visit the account holder and arrest him / her. The site is dead.

 

This was achieved by two police officers and a contact at the credit card company...

 

You haven't come up with a viable reason why it couldn't work although there probably is one. The basic fact is that to run a business, of any sort, you need a bank account and you can't get a bank account without personal details..