Mecky Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 1. ICT visas are seriously abused. At my last company from a position of taking on hundreds of grads and modern apprentices a year. This was reducing to a trickle and replaced with ICT migrants. This was just one company choking off thousands of training places to make short term profit. 2. I would suggest training places on the massive infrastructure projects we need to get out this mess. Just for a start. 3. The government needs to prove that it is pro-SME as well as supporting big business. It's too far up the backsides of the corporates. That needs to be challenged. 1) ICTs are always abused but then again, they're not British companies, can employ who they want and don't pay tax to the UK government, at least the evidence I've seen suggests that. They are here largely to provide IT services to UK industry. 2) What infrastructure? We can't compete with oversea's manufacturing. The only option is to reduce UK wages, which won't happen because we import more than we sell and therefore the prices are largely set by oversea's businesses, or we'll have to wait until the cost of living in other countries outgrows our own and I can't see that happening TBH. 3) It has nothing to do with the government. There are already monoplies rules and rules against unfair business practices. It's all to do with being top dog and making people dependable on your business. Small business can't compete with big business. All a small business can do is offer a more personal service and rely on specialist products. That's why Morrisons have put Family Baker, Family Butcher etc on their deli counters. I can't see a way out for the UK at the moment and the current government is not helping one jot. High unemployment is a price worth paying ... remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Over 1 million people between 16-19 currently looking for work. This includes people in education too. Still doesn't mean its a good thing but does show the headlines are not always as clear as you would have hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutfsl Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 This shows the problem more clearly http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2011/nov/16/youth-unemployment-map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halibut Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 This shows the problem more clearly http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/interactive/2011/nov/16/youth-unemployment-map It shows us that it's particularly bad in Limavady, Redcar and Cleveland and Wolverhampton. What do you make of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutfsl Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It shows us that it's particularly bad in Limavady, Redcar and Cleveland and Wolverhampton. What do you make of that? That the situation is insane. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Isn't this mainly because immigrants will work for below the minimum wage, get paid cash in hand and not pay tax? Perhaps a crackdown on immigrants working illegally is called for. Either that or scrap the farcical minimum wage altogether. Quite right Rickie, £4:98 is way too much to pay young people an hourly rate in a job, how greedy of them to expect more. Just like the great depression of the 1930s, all those upstarts pricing themselves out of jobs.... Minimum wage rates for young pople as of Oct 2011 •£4.98 - the 18-20 rate •£3.68 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18 •£2.60 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vulpe Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 immigrants are not the only problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeX Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 immigrants are not the only problem... nope, one major problem and the over arching theme of the interviews on the radio when this news story broke was youngsters leaving school with out the basic education required to enter the job market. This is the underlying problem. Many children, especially in deprived areas do not see education as their ticket out of their predicament, but rather see education as a hinderance to their way of life. This self defeating attitude is the real problem. It makes me wonder if this country is worth bothering about when we have to fight our children to get an education while children in thirdworld countries walk miles while dodging bullets and landmines to access education. How its the present governments fault that so many have left schools without the basic level of eduction I cannot understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 1) ICTs are always abused but then again, they're not British companies, can employ who they want and don't pay tax to the UK government, at least the evidence I've seen suggests that. They are here largely to provide IT services to UK industry. 2) What infrastructure? We can't compete with oversea's manufacturing. The only option is to reduce UK wages, which won't happen because we import more than we sell and therefore the prices are largely set by oversea's businesses, or we'll have to wait until the cost of living in other countries outgrows our own and I can't see that happening TBH. 3) It has nothing to do with the government. There are already monoplies rules and rules against unfair business practices. It's all to do with being top dog and making people dependable on your business. Small business can't compete with big business. All a small business can do is offer a more personal service and rely on specialist products. That's why Morrisons have put Family Baker, Family Butcher etc on their deli counters. I can't see a way out for the UK at the moment and the current government is not helping one jot. High unemployment is a price worth paying ... remember that. 1. Because ICT visas have been so badly abused it doesn't make it right for it to continue. The abuse has to stop. It's not just IT affected but telecomms and other sectors. I speak with experience of this - in my last job I put together staffing plans and where we used to have grads and MAs we were told we would get Indian nationals on ICTs instead. Many of them were not long out of uni, 6 months in some cases, and we were training them. At my old company I think this affected hundreds of roles a year, possibly thousands over the course of a few years. Our ICT workers were looked after ok but other firms treated their staff badly - BBC did an expose of the worst and most expolitative companys. Anyway, over the course of the last few years we are looking at maybe at least 100,000 roles that would have gone to British staff taken by other nationals. Many of these are roles that would have gone to British youngsters. 2. Infrastructure. Mark my words we will be spending big on infrastructure in order to bring demand forward. We are going to have to. Growth is not going to come from anywhere else - external and internal demand is flat. When the projects get going it will be a national scandal if they are not structured to provide significant numbers of training roles for British youngsters. 3. It's wrong to suggest that British youngster shouldn't even try to use and develop their entrepreneurial skills. Very wrong and defeatist. In fact your whole post was very defeatist. I'm not talking down the scale of the crisis but there has to be some ideas about how to move forward. Inertia and the economic death spiral are not options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chem1st Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Quite right Rickie, £4:98 is way too much to pay young people an hourly rate in a job, how greedy of them to expect more. Just like the great depression of the 1930s, all those upstarts pricing themselves out of jobs.... Minimum wage rates for young pople as of Oct 2011 •£4.98 - the 18-20 rate •£3.68 - the 16-17 rate for workers above school leaving age but under 18 •£2.60 - the apprentice rate, for apprentices under 19 or 19 or over and in the first year of their apprenticeship. At £2.60 an hour, some people would have to work 96 hours to cover their housing benefit, and a further 6 to cover their council tax benefit. And a further 20 to cover their JSA and 11 more to buy a bus pass. Leaving them 5 hours a day to travel, eat and sleep. These people will rise up against the system. Were going to be looking at a civil war. If I was in that position I'd attack a copper and get myself locked up. Far better to have free time and be able to eat a proper meal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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