If you could vote on the future of benefits, how would you vote?

[TheGuy]

Why, what would that achieve besides a black market in vouchers?

 

How would a "black market in vouchers" work?

 

Edit: Rupert_Baehr answered:

 

"I've no doubt there is a black market in vouchers - But if you had a 10 Euro note, how much would you be prepared to pay for a 10 Euro voucher which could only be spent on food?

 

If you paid 8 Euros, then the person selling the voucher would be taking a voluntary 20% cut in benefits."

 

This black market situation is easily solved isn't though; vouchers would have the person who they where issued to's name on it and some form of ID must be produced when using the voucher.

[Rupert_Baehr]

For cash payments to be replaced by food and utility vouchers.

 

What about clothing?

 

The benefits system in Germany is a two-tier system.

 

If you become unemployed, then you are paid full unemployment (approx 67% of your previous salary) for 12 months (18 months if you are over 55.)

 

If you are unemployed after that time, then the unemployment pay is reduced and supplemented by 'Social Assistance.'

 

The amount you receive will cover your basic living expenses. (Basic expenses does not include items such as beer, tobacco, tea or coffee - If you want those, go and earn some money to pay for them.)

 

A part of the payment will be in vouchers, with which you can buy food and clothing.

 

I've no doubt there is a black market in vouchers - But if you had a 10 Euro note, how much would you be prepared to pay for a 10 Euro voucher which could only be spent on food?

 

If you paid 8 Euros, then the person selling the voucher would be taking a voluntary 20% cut in benefits.

 

The benefits are (supposedly) paid at a rate which allows the recipient enough to live on - and to live at a reasonable standard.

 

Few people would argue that they are paid at a rate which allows enough to live on at a reasonable standard, plus enough to cover the loss you will make selling the vouchers at a discounted rate.

[L00b]

The benefits system in Germany is a two-tier system.<...>

It's quite similar to the French system (but which is continually creaking at the seams).

 

I think the potential issue with a 'black market', is about vouchers that would be obtained fraudulently for "non-persons" (in the same way as benefits are fraudulently obtained for inexistent/deceased family members).

 

More of an issue in the UK and its rather 'foggy' approach to personal identification and family specifics (compared to e.g. Germany and France, with ID cards and 'family booklets').

 

EDIT - repeating myself from my last post, sorry. Extrapolating a bit on Conrod's

A £20 note is just a voucher.

Considering the expected scale of thing (tens of £bns, based on the annual £165bn benefits bill), could this (vouchers) actually be considered an alternative form of QE?

 

A way for the Gvt to control/shape consumer demand outside the BoE and banks' influence?

 

Would there be an inflationary effect?

[max]

Are there many 55 (or 55½) year olds in the UK who have enough years of NIC to qualify for a state pension?

 

Yes, as you only have to have 30 years contributions if you reach state retirement age on or after 6th April 2010.

[cressida]

Thanks, I don't think many people would have a problem with that

[BUSTEDSOFA]

Sounds like a good idea.

 

Presumably you would expand it so that anybody who was working and was earning more than the State Pension would be taxed at a rate which would reduce their take-home pay to the amount received by one of those over-55's whose income you want to cap?

 

If you are going to have an income cap for over 55's, why not the same income cap for under 55's?

 

Are there many 55 (or 55½) year olds in the UK who have enough years of NIC to qualify for a state pension?

 

 

if you are working then it would not effect you, and for the NIC anyone 56 years or older should have at least 40 years NIC and thats enough to qualify but I thought we are Talking basically about Long Term Unemployment and Sickness benefits ??? of which it is almost Impossible to get a well paid Job at this age , The young Uns are getting the raw end of the deal at the moment No Jobs and No Experience so lets go the extra bit and let anyone with enough NIC retire if they want to and make room for them in the Employment market

[Bonjon]

Nothing, but don't let that get in the way of them wanting to get people off those nasty benefits wot drain their precious taxes,,

 

As part of the voucher system you wont be able to buy Xbox games, however they are allowing people to buy PS3 games.

 

Better goto the dark side??

[Rupert_Baehr]

if you are working then it would not effect you, and for the NIC anyone 56 years or older should have at least 40 years NIC and thats enough to qualify but I thought we are Talking basically about Long Term Unemployment and Sickness benefits ??? of which it is almost Impossible to get a well paid Job at this age , The young Uns are getting the raw end of the deal at the moment No Jobs and No Experience so lets go the extra bit and let anyone with enough NIC retire if they want to and make room for them in the Employment market

 

Really? Do all those students at colleges/universities pay NIC every week? If they didn't work while they were at university (and they probably didn't work full-time while they were at school before they went to university) how did they get 40 years of contributions in by age 56?

 

What about those people who didn't arrive in the country until they were over 20? Or those who were 30 years old or older when they arrived? (Will they ever be entitled to a State Pension?)

 

I wonder how many of those who you suggest should retire are the people who provide the jobs?

[WeX]

For cash payments to be replaced by food and utility vouchers.

 

Our betting shops would go out of business almost overnight if this ever happened.

[Halibut]

For cash payments to be replaced by food and utility vouchers.

 

Lousy idea that dehumanises and removes freedom of choice.