Too Lazy To Push

[Cyclone]

I wasn't talking to you though I was talking to suffragette, who thinks kidney stones are unnatural.

 

She doesn't, she just used the wrong word which you've seized on to try to prove a point.

[llamatron]

She doesn't, she just used the wrong word which you've seized on to try to prove a point.

 

No I am saying they are comparable because we have evolved to deal with both kidney stones and child birth, both of which are natural issues the body has to deal with.

[Cyclone]

my honorary niece needed an emergency C-section when giving birth to her son, as she collapsed and nearly died during the labour (baby would have probably died too). Thankfully, both she and the baby survived.

 

A former work colleague needed C-Sections with all three of her children, as her cervix would not open enough (well, hardly at all) to let the baby through. Again, it was a great risk to both her and the baby's lives.

 

My cousin had her son by CS as her pelvis was too narrow to deliver the baby safely. (It's called Disproportion)

 

My ex mum in law also had a caesar for her first son's delivery as she had disproportion, and her youngest son (my ex husband) should have been delivered by Caesar too, but the doctors allowed labour to progress too far, resulting in him suffering Foetal Hypoxia, (Oxygen starvation) which caused him to have a degree of cerebral palsy

 

None of those ladies had their Caesarian deliveries by choice. It wasn't a case of vanity or being too posh/ lazy to push:- it was a matter of necessity, and a case of life or death.

 

So? This thread is about whether it should be an elective procedure, obviously in all those cases it should be the method of delivery.

How would you have felt if one of them couldn't get the emergency CS because someone else had chosen to have one and all the surgery bays were busy?

[L00b]

This thread is about whether it should be an elective procedure

Indeed.

 

It shouldn't.

 

However, if brought in, then it should only be on a contributory basis. You want it? Fine, pay for (all or some of) it.

 

Considering its funding state, the NHS really doesn't need volumes of 'mothers' who should know better than aping celebrities/fads.

[Suffragette1]

No I am saying they are comparable because we have evolved to deal with both kidney stones and child birth, both of which are natural issues the body has to deal with.

 

Pregnancy and childbirth are not a disorder. Kindney stones are. If the urethra had evolved to pass them then they wouldn't require medical treatment and/or intervention. Just accept it, it is a nonsensical analogy and a stupid justifcation for elective caesarians, which has become a total fad, set in train by celebrities.

[llamatron]

Pregnancy and childbirth are not a disorder. Kindney stones are. If the urethra had evolved to pass them then they would require medical treatment and/or intervention. Just accept it, it is anonsensical analogy and a stupid justifcation for elective caesarians.

 

I think you have worded it wrong again, but kidney stones can be passed through without medical intervention so as an analogy its pretty good! I think we have evolved to deal with kidney stones as if we hadn't everyone that had them would have died.

[Suffragette1]

I think you have worded it wrong again, but kidney stones can be passed through without medical intervention so as an analogy its pretty good! I think we have evolved to deal with kidney stones as if we hadn't everyone that had them would have died.

 

Have edited my post as was typing in a rush.

 

The urethra has not evolved to pass kidney stones, it's just that some kidney stones are small enough to pass through, which is not the same as comparing it to childbirth. It is an absurd analogy.

[llamatron]

Have edited my post as was typing in a rush.

 

The urethra has not evolved to pass kidney stones, it's just that some kidney stones are small enough to pass through, which is not the same as comparing it to childbirth. It is an absurd analogy.

 

no its not, its possibly the most realistic analogy we have. No analogy is the same as the real scenario but in this case we are talking about medical treatment to avoid pain/enhance life chances and that makes it a decent analogy.

 

How do you know we have not evolved to deal with those small kidney stones? Urethras may have varied a lot more in size and through time only the larger strains have survived because of kidney stones.

[Suffragette1]

no its not, its possibly the most realistic analogy we have. No analogy is the same as the real scenario but in this case we are talking about medical treatment to avoid pain/enhance life chances and that makes it a decent analogy.

 

How do you know we have not evolved to deal with those small kidney stones? Urethras may have varied a lot more in size and through time only the larger strains have survived because of kidney stones.

 

Even if that were the case, and there is evidence to support it, you are not comparing like with like. One is a normal process which requires managing, the other a result of abnormalities (dysfunction) which often requires treatment.

[Cyclone]

no its not, its possibly the most realistic analogy we have. No analogy is the same as the real scenario but in this case we are talking about medical treatment to avoid pain/enhance life chances and that makes it a decent analogy.

 

How do you know we have not evolved to deal with those small kidney stones? Urethras may have varied a lot more in size and through time only the larger strains have survived because of kidney stones.

 

We've evolved to work around a great many dysfunctional states, we have immune systems, redundant organs, distributed systems and so on, but that is not the same as evolving a function.

Potentially being able to pass a kidney stone is not the same as commonly being able to give birth.

If we were to make surgery for a kidney stone an emergency procedure only then the entire process of passing the stone would need to be done in a clinical setting just like giving birth. That way for both situations the emergency procedure can be carried out if necessary.

In the case of a kidney stone it makes sense to take earlier action at leisure and ensure that no later emergency procedure is needed. That's not the case with giving birth, it's a question of resource allocation.