Mecky Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 You have the right to claim what you like although it’s a poor contribution to the discussion. Why is it a poor contribution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I'm claiming the NHS and most of the public sector needs a massive overall to get rid of the bureaucracy, fraud, corruption and incompetence. MrSmith, you do nothing to help your case by promoting a claim that NHS staff are generally corrupt, incompetent killers. It looks like a really heavy handed way of trying to scapegoat public sector workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 MrSmith, you do nothing to help your case by promoting a claim that NHS staff are generally corrupt, incompetent killers. It looks like a really heavy handed way of trying to scapegoat public sector workers. What case am I supposedly promoting? It my understanding that I am just expressing an opinion on a discussion forum. If you don’t like my opinion you could choose to ignore or counter it with evidence that the private sector is working just fine and nothing needs doing to cut the bureaucracy, fraud, corruption and incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 It’s a pity the overly bureaucratic system doesn’t work. So you think that the answer would be to privatise it and add another layer of bureaucracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 So you think that the answer would be to privatise it and add another layer of bureaucracy? No.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 No.......... So what is your answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 What case am I supposedly promoting? It my understanding that I am just expressing an opinion on a discussion forum. If you don’t like my opinion you could choose to ignore or counter it with evidence that the private sector is working just fine and nothing needs doing to cut the bureaucracy, fraud, corruption and incompetence. I think when other posters start begging you not to read their arguments it's quite funny. Anyway, I'm not saying the public sector works just fine. It is imperfect like any business. In any argument in this area I think it is worth acknowledging the fantastic work the vast majority of public sector workers do for us. It's wrong to start generalising staff as corrupt and incompetent when generally they're not. If you made the simple argument that the public sector needs to be more effective, more productive where possible I would agree. For me the way to make that argument is to acknowledge the good points about the services we get, the good points about the people providing those services, while looking for the areas that can be improved. Simple question. Do you think everything about our public services is rotten and not worth keeping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 No.......... You do realise that for outsourced services to maintain contracts and relations with the private sector providing those services requires a sizable layer of bureacracy within the civil service. The policy aspects don't go away. Legal issues don't go away. Governance does not go away. When the services start getting contracted out to multiple suppliers all of whom are tasked with delivering a consistent policy-driven, legally-compliant service then it takes an army of civil servants to monitor and track this. Seen it with my own eyes. In a past career I worked in a private company on the recieving end of this - we were providing services to NHS trusts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSmith Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 I think when other posters start begging you not to read their arguments it's quite funny. Anyway, I'm not saying the public sector works just fine. It is imperfect like any business. In any argument in this area I think it is worth acknowledging the fantastic work the vast majority of public sector workers do for us. It's wrong to start generalising staff as corrupt and incompetent when generally they're not. If you made the simple argument that the public sector needs to be more effective, more productive where possible I would agree. For me the way to make that argument is to acknowledge the good points about the services we get, the good points about the people providing those services, while looking for the areas that can be improved. Simple question. Do you think everything about our public services is rotten and not worth keeping? When did I generalise that all staff are corrupt and incompetent, most of the staff do a good job but could do a much better job if they weren't bogged down with mountains of bureaucratic nonsense, and if they had access to the mountains of money that is wasted through fraud and corruption and incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I1L2T3 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 When did I generalise that all staff are corrupt and incompetent, most of the staff do a good job but could do a much better job if they weren't bogged down with mountains of bureaucratic nonsense, and if they had access to the mountains of money that is wasted through fraud and corruption and incompetence. Post #68 in this thread. It almost completely contradicts what you just posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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