upinwath Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 This has had me looking at stories from WWII. I didn't know about this one. A bit off topic but may be interesting. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?134031-WW2-German-fighter-pilot-saved-U.S.-bomber-crew Back to topic. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/36/a5089836.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagel Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Moralising about bombing from where we are now is misplaced, let`s remember they were doing what they were ordered to do by the democratically elected Government of the time. The Germans were also doing what they were ordered to do by the democratically elected Government of the time. Following orders was thrown out as an excuse for committing war crimes at the Nuremberg trials. Had we lost the war there is no doubt that "Bomber" Harris would have been tried and convicted as a war criminal. The fire bombing of German cities towards the end of the war killing hundreds of thousands of German civilians isn't something we should be proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeoplesChamp Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 A lot of foolish people make all sorts of claims about bomber command and it's destruction of German cities. Apart from those claims being based on stupidity, they ignore the unbelievable bravery of flying a slow aircraft against heavily armed fighters and flak while holding a straight line for what must have seemed an age so the bomb aimer could do his job. I'm unsure I have the bravery to do that so I salute the heroes and I've signed. A lot of good sense in that post my friend. Very well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upinwath Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 The Germans were also doing what they were ordered to do by the democratically elected Government of the time. Following orders was thrown out as an excuse for committing war crimes at the Nuremberg trials. Had we lost the war there is no doubt that "Bomber" Harris would have been tried and convicted as a war criminal. The fire bombing of German cities towards the end of the war killing hundreds of thousands of German civilians isn't something we should be proud of. I keep hearing that rubbish from people sat in a comfy chair. It was considered to be essential at the time and, having looked back at history, I agree. The bombing was carried out to destroy military targets, manufacturing/communication lines and demoralise the population. All contributed to winning the war. Do I hear these foolish lefties moaning about the Germans knocking the hell out of London? Not a peep because it isn't a potential political win for the twits. Tell you what mate, go to a war zone and ask about the rights and wrongs while your at risk. I'll bet you soon lose your daft ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeoplesChamp Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 This has had me looking at stories from WWII. I didn't know about this one. A bit off topic but may be interesting. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?134031-WW2-German-fighter-pilot-saved-U.S.-bomber-crew Wow. Very very humbling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I keep hearing that rubbish from people sat in a comfy chair. It was considered to be essential at the time and, having looked back at history, I agree. The bombing was carried out to destroy military targets, manufacturing/communication lines and demoralise the population. All contributed to winning the war. Do I hear these foolish lefties moaning about the Germans knocking the hell out of London? Not a peep because it isn't a potential political win for the twits. Tell you what mate, go to a war zone and ask about the rights and wrongs while your at risk. I'll bet you soon lose your daft ideas. In your eloquent and reasoned rebuttal to Nagel's point, you disagree with him that" killing hundreds of thousands of German civilians isn't anything we should be proud of." London and Dresden, as bombing victims aren't really comparable. Dresden and Hiroshima are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Smith Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Thanks for finding that Justin, have now signed. My Grandad did 2 full 30 raid tours on Lancasters both principally over Germany before being transfered to Canada as a training officer. The psycological toll on him was very heavy from losing so many friends and he came close to not making it back on several occaisions, on one occaision having been badly hit by flak over germany they headed out into the bay of biscay to avoid the flak walls and fighter screen over the north coast of europe and made it to an airfield in cornwall with about 3 minutes fuel left. He's sadly passed away but it would be great if the surviving aircrew were finally given a campaign medal. Two 30 tour raids ! He must have been unbelievably brave, and unbelievably lucky to survive. Incidentally, did he have a choice as to whether he flew the second tour ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrod Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 The Germans were also doing what they were ordered to do by the democratically elected Government of the time. Following orders was thrown out as an excuse for committing war crimes at the Nuremberg trials. Had we lost the war there is no doubt that "Bomber" Harris would have been tried and convicted as a war criminal. The fire bombing of German cities towards the end of the war killing hundreds of thousands of German civilians isn't something we should be proud of. Read some comments above, about ignoring politics and pacifism. Nobody is proud of killing civilians, but we should all be proud of the courage of the aircrew of Bomber Command. Their losses were terrible, but they pressed on knowing every time they took off that it could be their last. That campaign wasn't a bit of meddling in another continent's politics that we have today, it was a war of national survival and we could do without comments like yours which deflect the due thanks we all still owe those men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrod Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Regardless of what people might feel about the awful consequences of their actions, there is no doubt in my mind that they were incredibly brave and hardy men, who must have coped with more mental strain, anguish and fear than most of us will face in a lifetime and that their courage and endurance should be honoured, late in the day as it is. Regardless of politics, or pacifism, or anything else, they were fine and brave men. You know what fishy, you might be human after all -there's a glimmer of decency and normality in you, and it just showed through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellabobby Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 My dad flew as a Flight lieutenant on the Lancaster Bombers and after VE. day was sent to Burma. I saw the effect that it had on him. Everyone and their grandmother involved in the war effort was justifiably given a medal, except Bomber command. After the war he spent 35 years down Silverwood Colliery. That is what killed him, but not before he saw The Bevin Boys given a medal for the couple of years that they spent in the pits So he missed out in both respects Sorry if I sound a bit put out, it's because I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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