Arthur Scargill makes me proud to be English!

[md00071]

This is a heated debate, but it helps to keep open minds. I was 13 in 1984. My father was on strike for the full 12 months at Woolley Colliery, and I fully understand why. On the other hand, my uncle at Denby Grange didn't strike for even one day, and I also understand why. People have different ideas of what's important in life, and different ways or achieving them. I've come to accept that the mining industry in the 80s was unsustainable, and had to change. I also understand that the miners demonstrated in the 70s that they COULD bring a country to it's knees - a dangerous thing to allow. So in retrospect I can see why Thatcher went all out to smash the NUM.

 

The thing that I still cannot accept is the way she did it. Loads of miners were ENCOURAGED to leave their roots and decamp to Selby, Goole, Howden etc on the promise of jobs for life. Jobs which were then taken off them within 5 years, and left lots of them mortgaged to the eyeballs trying to make ends meet farm labouring and trolley pushing. The way Cortonwood colliery was closed on the basis of lies and disinformation. It goes on.

 

On Arthur Scargill, I saw him speak at Locke Park in Barnsley in 1986, and I was impressed as a 15 year old by his commitment and passion. He wasn't a politician, he was an idealist. By contrast, Neil Kinnock spoke at the same rally after him, and he was dreadful - all statements and no substance, like every other politician nowadays.

 

My father stood and applauded Arthur Scargill. Last year he voted for David Cameron. You've got to listen to both sides.

[Jeffrey Shaw]

A thought-provoking and well-argued post (how rare hereabouts!) Thank you.

[callumandsam]

Hi Jeff.Its good to have a good old debate.Clears the cobwebs for xmas.

[xenia]

This is a heated debate, but it helps to keep open minds. I was 13 in 1984. My father was on strike for the full 12 months at Woolley Colliery, and I fully understand why. On the other hand, my uncle at Denby Grange didn't strike for even one day, and I also understand why. People have different ideas of what's important in life, and different ways or achieving them. I've come to accept that the mining industry in the 80s was unsustainable, and had to change. I also understand that the miners demonstrated in the 70s that they COULD bring a country to it's knees - a dangerous thing to allow. So in retrospect I can see why Thatcher went all out to smash the NUM.

 

The thing that I still cannot accept is the way she did it. Loads of miners were ENCOURAGED to leave their roots and decamp to Selby, Goole, Howden etc on the promise of jobs for life. Jobs which were then taken off them within 5 years, and left lots of them mortgaged to the eyeballs trying to make ends meet farm labouring and trolley pushing. The way Cortonwood colliery was closed on the basis of lies and disinformation. It goes on.

 

On Arthur Scargill, I saw him speak at Locke Park in Barnsley in 1986, and I was impressed as a 15 year old by his commitment and passion. He wasn't a politician, he was an idealist. By contrast, Neil Kinnock spoke at the same rally after him, and he was dreadful - all statements and no substance, like every other politician nowadays.

 

My father stood and applauded Arthur Scargill. Last year he voted for David Cameron. You've got to listen to both sides.

 

An excellent post if you will allow me to say so.

 

I would only make one comment on its content. The nature of any colliery is that one day it will become uneconomical.

 

It will either run out of coal or it will become uneconomical to mine what is there. Coal mining is therefore a transient occupation. Albeit a mine can stay productive for many years. The real tragedy of the Scargill/Thatcher conflict was that potentially profitable mines in South Yorkshire and elsewhere were closed before they could be fully exploited. The "effect on the community" arguement was in fact a cruel deception, any mining community is transient and when collieries close people should move to wherever the work is.

 

I realise that this sounds cruel, but reflect that both sides of my family moved to South Yorkshire looking for work, my forebears were Irish navvies, Potters from Stoke upon Trent and agricultural workers from East Anglia. All came to work in the emerging Yorkshire Coalfields.

 

Now that work is gone and we, in my opinion, still struggle to replace those kind of jobs.

 

Service industries have always been the a major source of employment, in the 19th century the great houses and estates employed more people than the mines and the cotton mills. Today we see the service sector importing people from all over the world because the brits seem to be averse to "service" type jobs.

 

Why is it that in London any hotel is manned by foreighners? Whilst our old mining communities fester with third and maybe even fourth generations who have never worked? The Welfare society has created this situation. Trapping potentially good people into a spiral of dependency. Well meant, it has failed, and we must get back to the situation that labour becomes more transient i.e it follows the work.

[Hushai]

Arthur Scargill was a man of principle. He was not a thief and a liar with no scruples like most modern day politicians.

[xenia]

Arthur Scargill was a man of principle. He was not a thief and a liar with no scruples like most modern day politicians.

 

I knew Arthur Scargill, see my post above, he was a traitor to his class and to his country.

[ANGELFIRE1]

Arthur Scargill was a man of principle. He was not a thief and a liar with no scruples like most modern day politicians.

 

 

 

Nowt like blind faith. Even when blind faith strays from fact to fiction.

 

Angel.

[callumandsam]

An excellent post if you will allow me to say so.

 

I would only make one comment on its content. The nature of any colliery is that one day it will become uneconomical.

 

It will either run out of coal or it will become uneconomical to mine what is there. Coal mining is therefore a transient occupation. Albeit a mine can stay productive for many years. The real tragedy of the Scargill/Thatcher conflict was that potentially profitable mines in South Yorkshire and elsewhere were closed before they could be fully exploited. The "effect on the community" arguement was in fact a cruel deception, any mining community is transient and when collieries close people should move to wherever the work is.

 

I realise that this sounds cruel, but reflect that both sides of my family moved to South Yorkshire looking for work, my forebears were Irish navvies, Potters from Stoke upon Trent and agricultural workers from East Anglia. All came to work in the emerging Yorkshire Coalfields.

 

Now that work is gone and we, in my opinion, still struggle to replace those kind of jobs.

 

Service industries have always been the a major source of employment, in the 19th century the great houses and estates employed more people than the mines and the cotton mills. Today we see the service sector importing people from all over the world because the brits seem to be averse to "service" type jobs.

 

Why is it that in London any hotel is manned by foreighners? Whilst our old mining communities fester with third and maybe even fourth generations who have never worked? The Welfare society has created this situation. Trapping potentially good people into a spiral of dependency. Well meant, it has failed, and we must get back to the situation that labour becomes more transient i.e it follows the work.

 

Good morning to you.With reference to foreign workers.

In September 2010 i was made redundant,after 33 years in engineering.This was 3 days before i moved into my new house.I did find a job which was outside my last employment.I worked in Kingston upon Thames as a labourer doing shopfitting in the Wilkinsons store.We worked regular nights,but what struck me wasnthe amount of foreign workersthere.Out of the 25+ staff they had employed,only 3 (three)were British.Over a number of weeks i was on friendly terms with them.I asked the question 'What were they doing here in this country.There answer rocked me to the core.It was''We work here because your English boys and girls dont want to do work''.I used to think like alot of other people in that the foreigners were pinching our jobs.Not anymore.On a lighter note,i can now swear in 4 different languages.

[callumandsam]

A thought-provoking and well-argued post (how rare hereabouts!) Thank you.

 

Good morning Jeff.I think we've opened a big can of worms here.

And what gets me is that all this stemmed from what happened nearly 30 years ago,when i had a 32'' waist,dark hair and the customery Magnum PI moustache.

[md00071]

I worked at a Distribution Centre when it opened. We sat on induction day and listened to each other's histories. A thoroughly decent collection of ex-miners, shop workers, and of course a few dozen Polish men. All of them great workers and people, glad for a secure future. Then the first xmas it was open they took on a large group of xmas temp staff, most of them sent from the dole queues of Maltby and Worksop. I have never seen a bigger bunch of ignorant, workshy losers. To these people, the idea of doing a days work for 8 hours and then getting paid for it was clearly beneath them. The fact that there are so many people like these around is the reason we have a demand for migrant workers.